Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Dragoneti on December 10, 2011, 05:24:24 PM
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Hello everybody!!
I have a question regarding a holy diver bridge pickup that i have at the moment in my usa charvel san dimas.
It seems to me that compaired to both the JB that came with the guitar (trembucker at 17 kohms) and a Dimarzio super distortion that i had laying around (f spaced at 14.5kohm), the holy diver (which measures at 15.8 ) comes out as more anemic in terms of gain and output.
To be more specific i play 80s hard rock / hair metal (bon jovi, van halen, dokken, older priest etc) through a jvm/ greenbacks using the OD1 green (modded jcm800 gain wise channel) + a mid boost from either a tubescremer (gain at zero, vol max) or a mxr KFK1 eq pedal.
While with both the JB and SD the level of saturation that i want is there with the above settings, with the HD i have to increase the gain on the pedal to have the same overal level of gain.
Is it normal or something is wrong with my HD? the wiring seems to be ok in the guitar (after all there only one volume + the switch and its not my first pickup change, more like my 50th+... :P). The neck pickup remain the 59 that came with the guitar.
Thank you in advance
Stelios
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Both the JB and the DiMarzio Super Distortion already add their own distortion and fizz to the sound, whereas the HD is cleaner and doesn't add any additional distortion to the sound. The clean signal should be comparably loud, although the DiMarzio is a very loud and powerful pickup and should be louder (and more compressed, less open) than the others. In other words, with the HD when it comes to the gain you'll hear the gain from the amp and the OD pedal, not from the pickup. Just increase the gain on the amp and after a while you should hear the benefits of this approach in terms of overall tone and clarity.
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how's the tone? :D
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to play that style in my experience with the HD and JVM combo you need to either boost OD2 with gain not past 9 o'clock, or if not using a boost put gain close to 12 o'clock. As said before the HD is cleaner and with more clarity so you need to up the preamp gain to saturate it as well as your other pickups. Problem with the OD2 channel it's generally horribly scooped and trebley, the only way you can salvage it, if you want that marshall roar, is to use your eq to boost certain mid frequencies so it adopt the character of OD1 channel or crunch orange/red. You can find the eq conversion settings on the JVM forum, they've been put there by Santiago their main tech/designer.
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Thank you all for your answers!
The tone is fine, clear and articulate as already stated it should, i just was wondering if there was something wrong with the pickup as i thought it should be comparable gainwise with either JB or SD so i thought i should ask to make sure :)
As for JVM i'm using the 410H head with a 1960 loaded with greenbacks (for this week anyway... :P ) and i choose to od1 green + boost instead of od1 orange as it has a more classic vibe and the known marshall roar :) OD1 and OD2 is comparable in gain in the same modes, the mids frequency only changes, OD2 is at 500hz and thus more modern tone.
Thank you again for the answers!
Stelios
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if possible, you can also set your hd closer to the strings
difference in output, attack and low end should be very noticeable with a small adjust
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That's my experience with the HD as well. It seems to lack punch and output. The tone is good, but it is actually lower in output than the Cool Rails in the mid and neck position of that guitar...
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The HD is my favourite BKP exactly for the reasons you state above. Initially, I bought a Mule and then I made the (big) jump to the HD, because I like the firm low end of hot pickups. What surprised me, is that the HD didn't seem that hot because it wasn't all that crunchy or grainy (probably not the best words to describe what I'm hearing). It's sort of like comparing an overdrive pedal (typical high output p-up) to a clean boost (HD). In my guitar it has lots of punch and sustain with all the characteristics of a hot pickup, but without the fizz. It sounds very flute-ish to me :)
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That's my experience with the HD as well. It seems to lack punch and output. The tone is good, but it is actually lower in output than the Cool Rails in the mid and neck position of that guitar...
Second that,
at least with my PRS and Marshall JVM-205. I moved HD closer to the strings but it doesn't help a lot, no punch, and output is low. Moved to Cold Sweat set and satisfied with it :)
Troy, interesting, how people hearing things so different. I think HD was less impressive set of all BKP I've tried - Cold Sweat, Nailbomb, Abraxas, HD... my favorites are Cold Sweat followed by Nailbomb. I didn't like HD at all.
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Troy, interesting, how people hearing things so different. I think HD was less impressive set of all BKP I've tried - Cold Sweat, Nailbomb, Abraxas, HD... my favorites are Cold Sweat followed by Nailbomb. I didn't like HD at all.
Well that makes sense :lol: I also have a CS that I tried in the same guitar and I have also played a Nailbomb equiped guitar for a few days about two weeks ago. In my opinion, they're all in the same camp output wise, but the CS is VERY crunchy, the HD is very clean and the NB sits somewhere in the middle. The CS is my second favourite pickup though 8) the Nailbomb wasn't my thing though, I didn't like the mids that much and the bass was too much.
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the Nailbomb wasn't my thing though, I didn't like the mids that much and the bass was too much.
I wouldn't say that NB has more bass than CS - CS is way more bassy, but it's tighter and faster, and equally balanced with good ammount of highs. NB just lacked highs - and get feeeling that it is bassy.
But I agree with unique midrange thing on NB - not for everybody for sure.
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guess the guitar makes a lot of difference
the diver sounded amazing in the 3 les pauls I had it installed, and completely dead for rhythms in a Gibson SG
in the gibson sg, it sounded good for leads only, but weak, too soft and dark for rhythms
in my jap lp copy, it sounded somewhat clean, but quite balanced and toneful
in my brazilian lp copy w/ brazilian mahogany (same as honduras), brazilian rosewood and imbuya top (quite dark sounding guitar), it sounded really deep, powerful and bassy, but not muffled or dark at all
in my real 1973 lp custom, it sounded punchy and quite saturated (which is why I replaced it with a black dog, and later with a riff raff), and also had a lot more attack than I expected (from previous guitars)
it was a lot like the aftermath it replaced, but smooth instead of scratchy, and not as loud
in all of them, it sounded better very close to the strings, unlike the other contemporary models
still one of my favorite bridge pickups, along with the riff raff and the cold sweat
I definitely liked it much better than the nailbomb, painkiller, warpig, miracle man, alnico miracle man, aftermath... (and I loved all of them)
the black dog sounded like a smoother and darker version of the diver (I still have it waiting in a broken neck SG)
I still gotta try the rebel yell and the ceramic versions of the nailbomb and warpig
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I wouldn't say that NB has more bass than CS - CS is way more bassy...
Like I said, it was in a different guitar so maybe that's where the extra bass came from. But I still don't think the NB is all that tight.
the diver sounded amazing in the 3 les pauls I had it installed, and completely dead for rhythms in a Gibson SG
in the gibson sg, it sounded good for leads only, but weak, too soft and dark for rhythms
Depends on the SG :wink: Mine's in an SG supreme (mahogany back and neck, maple top, ebony board) and it sounds fantastic! Obviously it's not a typical SG though... :P
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guess the guitar makes a lot of difference
I think so too, yeah. It may be the guitar in my case. I'm going to completely redo the wiring and replace the pots and cap in mine, just to see if it makes a difference.
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Thank you for your answers!
Hm, from what i'm reading about HD and les pauls, i'm now tempted to return the Super Distortion to the charvel and move the holydiver to an old les paulish washburn that currently has a black dog in its bridge... just for the test of it at least... (and maybe the black dog to be moved to the neck position of the same guitar? tempting...)
Btw how is the nailbomb (the alnico ver) for 80s hard/hair rock on a floyd blocked(tremol-no) charvel, alder with maple neck? :)
As regarding to the pickup height i always shoot for an approximate of 2.1mm on the bass side and 1.7mm on the treble side (last fret string depressed) as the middle ground from recommendation values of both duncan and dimarzio that i used for years, should i move it closer or will that be too close?
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guess the guitar makes a lot of difference
This! I think that explains the differences people hear about the HD.
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Buy a set of painkillers. Never look back
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guess the guitar makes a lot of difference
This! I think that explains the differences people hear about the HD.
Same experience here. In the PRS Custom it just kills whereas in the alder bodied strat it was a tad too warm. The only direct comparisons with BKPs would be:
- to the A-Bomb: HD is slightly fatter with more center and high mids which makes it appear to have less bass
- to the Miracle Man: MiM has a bit more output, more bass and more bite
- to the Abraxas: AB sounds more open, with more highs, a bit less low mids, which makes it appear to have more bass.
Cheers Stephan
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Same experience here. In the PRS Custom it just kills whereas in the alder bodied strat it was a tad too warm. The only direct comparisons with BKPs would be:
- to the A-Bomb: HD is slightly fatter with more center and high mids which makes it appear to have less bass
- to the Miracle Man: MiM has a bit more output, more bass and more bite
- to the Abraxas: AB sounds more open, with more highs, a bit less low mids, which makes it appear to have more bass.
Cheers Stephan
Strange, but I've found A-Bomb much fatter in my PRS Custom, than HD. HD was cleanest/thinnest of the three high-gain BKPs I owned - A-Bomb, Cold Sweat, HD. CS sounds most crunchy and huge of all three, my favorite :)
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Strange, but I've found A-Bomb much fatter in my PRS Custom, than HD. HD was cleanest/thinnest of the three high-gain BKPs I owned - A-Bomb, Cold Sweat, HD. CS sounds most crunchy and huge of all three, my favorite :)
Another proof that it is the guitar- pickup combination.
I also think the CS kills - it turned a rather tame sounding guitar into a screaming bitch.
Cheers Stephan
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What about CS bridge in an alder body/maple neck/rosewood fingerboard/FR?
Will it be bright sounding?
Regards!
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The CS bridge is a bright pickup but in the guitar I have it in it is far from being harsh. It is just very crunchy, bitey and articulate.
Whether it will sound right or too bright in your particular guitar is difficult to answer as this wood combination can produce very different results from one guitar to another. I have an alder bodied strat w/ maple/rw neck and vintage tremolo. Contrary to popular belief that this combination produces a bright guitar, this guitar is rather dark sounding. I have replaced the Holydiver with a Miracle Man in this guitar because the HD was too dark and soft in it. I am sure the CS bridge would sound awesome in this guitar.
What pickup do you have in this guitar and what are you trying to change?
Cheers Stephan
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You are so f.....ing right...
The Guitar is an ESP MII. The Pup's: JB->HD->???
The HD is clear, articulate, fluid...but I want punch, bite, tight...
Regards @darkbluemurder
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Yep, it sounds like a CS may be the solution for both of us, Petrucci :)
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Punch, bite, tight = Cold Sweat.
If I had to characterize the Holydiver with three words they would be warm, articulate and singing, so the CS would be quite different.
I won't make the three word classification for the JB as everyone on this Forum knows that I dislike it.
Cheers Stephan
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So another shot in the dark...
Regards Sancho :drink:
P.S.I hope our topics here help @Dragoneti
P.S. 2 Thank you Stephan
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Same experience here. In the PRS Custom it just kills whereas in the alder bodied strat it was a tad too warm. The only direct comparisons with BKPs would be:
- to the A-Bomb: HD is slightly fatter with more center and high mids which makes it appear to have less bass
- to the Miracle Man: MiM has a bit more output, more bass and more bite
- to the Abraxas: AB sounds more open, with more highs, a bit less low mids, which makes it appear to have more bass.
Cheers Stephan
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I also found the HDs in an Alder bodies/Maple neck Strat a little too warm and not aggressive enough especially when play rhythms. The lead sound it too die for though. One of the best lead pickups I have ever played through. Very smooth!!!I took my HDs out and replaced them with some MCPs. I do have a a A-bomb bridge/CS neck still awaiting my ESP Horizon NTII and have the RY for my old Alder Kramer Baretta. We will see how the RY work out in that guitar.
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I took my HDs out and replaced them with some MCPs.
Sorry for the lame question, but what is ''MCPs''?
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MCP=Motor City Pickups. I decided to try something different in the high end pickup market.
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@Petrucci, yes of course it helps, and i'm looking for some spare time to make some experiments with HD and the washburn, i will report back my findings! :)
@metalmaniac93 which MCP? and how was it, compared with the HD?
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there's no right height for pickups
as long it's not touching the strings when you press the last frets...
the right height should be the best sounding setting for your ears
both holy diver and black dog sounded a lot thicker and more articulate very close to the strings in my main guitar
isame guitar also had a MCP afwayu, but that was too hot and bassy
much bassier, more dry sounding and louder than the holy diver
about as hot as a nailbomb, but very mid heavy and not as open
great pickup, but overkill for my les paul and my pickup output needs
I could keep the 2nd degree black belt, though :D
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the diver sounded amazing in the 3 les pauls I had it installed, and completely dead for rhythms in a Gibson SG
in the gibson sg, it sounded good for leads only, but weak, too soft and dark for rhythms
Depends on the SG :wink: Mine's in an SG supreme (mahogany back and neck, maple top, ebony board) and it sounds fantastic! Obviously it's not a typical SG though... :P
yeah, that's quite a different beast
the lack of a pickup mounting pickguard also makes a lot of difference
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Dragonetti,
I picked up a calibrated set of Afwayu's (underwound). Well Eric does describe them very well since he had the bridge in one of his Les Paul style guitars. I do agree they are bassy even in my Alder Bodied/Maple Neck Bolt, but it was more my style than the HDs especially the bridge. The Awfayu's are mean/aggressive and massive at the same time while being more open than in the HDs in my guitar and rig. They have a more bass/low mid thump than the HD but the high mids are not as emphasized. The HDs had too much center mids going on where it sounded kind of like there was a blanket over it for high gain even when put closer to the strings. The leads were great though. Very liquidy and smooth with pinch harmonics coming very easy!!! The Afwayu's leads are more in your face/aggressive but still retains some fatness. But it all depends on your amp and cabs too. I am playing through an Engl Savage 120 with a Bogner OS 2X12 (V30s) at the moment.
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MCP=Motor City Pickups. I decided to try something different in the high end pickup market.
Thanks.
BTW how many times you can exchange PUs at BK online shop? :roll:
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Dragonetti,
I picked up a calibrated set of Afwayu's (underwound). Well Eric does describe them very well since he had the bridge in one of his Les Paul style guitars. I do agree they are bassy even in my Alder Bodied/Maple Neck Bolt, but it was more my style than the HDs especially the bridge. The Awfayu's are mean/aggressive and massive at the same time while being more open than in the HDs in my guitar and rig. They have a more bass/low mid thump than the HD but the high mids are not as emphasized. The HDs had too much center mids going on where it sounded kind of like there was a blanket over it for high gain even when put closer to the strings. The leads were great though. Very liquidy and smooth with pinch harmonics coming very easy!!! The Afwayu's leads are more in your face/aggressive but still retains some fatness. But it all depends on your amp and cabs too. I am playing through an Engl Savage 120 with a Bogner OS 2X12 (V30s) at the moment.
hey dude, can you tell me more about how the afwayu neck pickup is like? have u compared it any bkps/other neck pickups? and how would u rate the bass tightness of the afwayu relative to the holy diver?
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Well I have not had much time with the Afwayu neck, but it is fatter than the HD, that is for sure and measures slightly above 9K. I will spend more time playing my guitars over Xmas break. I only have the HDs so that is the only BKP neck PU that I have heard so far. I did hear the Rebel Yell Neck in my friends guitar through my rig, but that was back in October and did not have much time with it. I think the HD bridge and the Afwayu bridge are almost close as far as tightness in my guitar/amp set-up, but the Afwayu appears a little tighter especially when turning the bass down on the amp to an acceptable level even with the bass at 12 o clock (mids around 11 o'clock, treble around 3 o'clock and the presence around 2 o'clock, it is still tight, but slightly dark!! I have to turn the bass down a little more than I did with the HD bridge. The Afwayu just has that massive bass/low mid push but retains it clarity!!!! It is hotter and more aggressive than the HD. I need more time with this pickup, but I do like it over the HD for my style of playing. It does clean up real nice when rolling the volume knob back, but so does the HD.
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BTW how many times you can exchange PUs at BK online shop? :roll:
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I do not know home many times you can exchange pickups when purchasing from the online store since I bought mine from a dealer in the US.