Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => The Dressing Room => Topic started by: MrBump on March 18, 2012, 08:10:38 PM
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I'm thinking that me and the family really need to cut back on red and processed meat. And have less carbs too.
But whenever I've attempted veggy food it's always been a little bland, unexciting.
Who can suggest kid friendly, exciting, flavoursome vegetarian cuisine?
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Not a veggie - I eat loads of chicken and fish (not so much red meat). And I'm no expert on vegetarian diets.
But I am a low-carber.... and I'm thinking if you cut out meat and carbs, you're really going to struggle for sufficient calories. Unless you're happy to eat a lot of nuts, cheese and eggs.
A lot of foods which are high in carbohydrates aren't particularly nutritious - essentially they're "fodder" (IMO) - but they do provide their share of calories for energy. Replacing them is tough!
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whenever I feel unhealthy I go veggie for a couple of weeks and I think that it does help.
unfortunately i don't have many recipes up my sleeve, but one of them is mushroom risotto, and its tasty stuff.
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I'm a 4 month flexitarian. I eat one meal a week with meal and it's really helped me drop some pounds after gaining 50 after an ankle injury last year that had me sitting down for 2 months while keeping the same eating habits.
Some of my favorite main dishes/snacks are:
bell pepper stuffed with rice(always), mushrooms, squash, whatever I feel like that day, seasoned sort of Mexican-like
big portobello caps topped with greens, maybe some mozzarella
big fan of fresh guacamole: avocado, tomatoes, garlic, lime juice, salt
really like legumes, tree nuts, raisins, dried cranberries
Ease into it, brother. The gastric backlash can be mighty, especially if you were on a high fat high meat diet. :(
I started full throttle and had to back track and start with one veggie meal a day.
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Yes, I've been vegetarian for about 7 or 8 years.
You do have to think a bit more when you cook. With meat dishes, the meat is often the main flavour, so you can't just take it away and enjoy what's left. You need to replace the protein, so beans, pulses, soya etc but also get some flavour back in there with herbs, spices and if all else fails plenty of chili!
Get a few decent vege cook books and remember a good dish will taste good to everybody, just becuase it's vegetarian shouldn't mean it's got to be boring. Really you could look at it as an excuse to really concentrate on new styles of cooking, some of the quorn stuff and similar is pretty goodnthese days but if you just swap chicken and steak for quorn you might get a little gutted.
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I don't even eat meat from animals that aren't carnivores themselves...
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I've been veggie for about 13 years now.
Agree with pretty much what Tom has said here in that you can't replace meat with something Quorn based - it really is its own taste and shouldn't be compared to meat, you will feel like you are missing out if you do this. Also, worth noting that veggie food/recipes are much more widely available than even 5 years ago. When I first started it was pretty much tofu in every restaurant that had a veggie option - and there was only really a choice of one dish in each restaurant (if any choices at all)
I did make myself a great lunch time snack today - Ciabatta with portobello mushroom, grilled haloumi, rocket, cherry tomato and pesto. It was great! I guess if I was a meat eater it would have been chicken instead of the haloumi!
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I'm a meat eater, but I don't eat meat everyday. Strong sauces with a depth of flavour are the key to tasty vegetarian. Make good use of things like soy sauce and balsalmic vinegar to enrich sauces, and of course a decent vegetable stock. Spicy lentil stew and chickpea curry are regulars for me.
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i tried going veggie for about an afternoon. it didn't take. :lol:
i'd be very wary about changing your diet based on the latest fad advice from magazines etc. (which is often far removed from actual scientific advice... which basically boils down to "eat reasonably sensibly and do everything in moderation" :lol: )
if that's not what you're doing, then fair enough, it's your call. :)
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I really admire Vegans. The dedication and self discipline to be one must be incredible. It's not like being a vegetarian, being a Vegan is like a religion in it's self.
I remember I used to pretend I was vegetarian at primary school sometimes if the vegetarian menu was better haha. But I did go vegetarian once just to get my mum to pack me babybel cheese and other cool snacks :D Only lasted 2 days and I went back onto school dinners haha :P
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I did make myself a great lunch time snack today - Ciabatta with portobello mushroom, grilled haloumi, rocket, cherry tomato and pesto. It was great! I guess if I was a meat eater it would have been chicken instead of the haloumi!
Sound good - I wish I could still eat ciabatta! :(
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I live with my Fiancee, who is a vegetarian, and we do the usual spaghetti and curries etc but substituting quorn in. I would definitely recommend the River Cottage - Veg every day cookbook for ideas.
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being veggie in uk is a breeze, you've got quorn,tofu & pataks curry paste all available in the main supermarkets.
much harder in france :(
also veggie'ism isn't just about reducing meat for health benefits but reducing suffering for beasts, compassion!
choose your veg carefully, i think red peppers have 20 or so nasty products on or in them.
quinoa is also a good staple as is semoule (semolina for cous cous), both quite high in protein.
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I live with my Fiancee, who is a vegetarian, and we do the usual spaghetti and curries etc but substituting quorn in. I would definitely recommend the River Cottage - Veg every day cookbook for ideas.
My girlfriend and I swear by that one as well! There are some ludicrously delicious recipes in that one, although she does often take liberties and freestyles quite a bit :P
We also use a cookbook called "Veganomicon" a lot. That one even has a polenta recipe which I tend to make for my hangover food occasionally. It's that good!
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This thread is filled with all kinds of wrong.
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My favorite vegetable is steak.
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This thread is filled with all kinds of wrong.
Indeed. eat atleast 600 grams of veggies/fruit. And shiteloads of meat etc. Make a big Y on your plate. one big side is veggies, the other rice/spuds etc. and the small one, FLEISCH!..
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My favorite vegetable is steak.
+1 !! :lol:
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I've just had my cholesterol taken as part of my NHS health check wich you get when you turn 35.
It's spot on and actually lower than it was when I got it taken 20 years ago at school, so being vegetarian may have helped. Certainly when the nurse went through diet she wanted to tell me to eat less red meat so she was happy when I said 'none'.
Unfortunately I didn't fare as well with the alcohol questions.....
I think the most important thing is avoiding processed foods, there's no point giving up pepperoni's and eating cheese strings instead. There are good and bad vegetarians just like good and bad meat eaters.
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Vegetarians can often have very high cholesterol because they eat disproportionate amounts of cheese.
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Vegetarians can often have very high cholesterol because they eat disproportionate amounts of cheese.
or nuts. or eggs.. or....
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Nuts don't give you high cholesterol. I don't think eggs do either. Cheese, maybe, since it's much higher in saturated fat.
Since I switched to a low-carb diet my cholesterol has come right down, but I eat loads of nuts and eggs - and oily fish, and olive oil, and rapeseed oil. Cheese too, but not massive amounts.
With meat, I tend to buy very lean cuts, then I can control the amount of fat (and how saturated it is) by the amount of cooking oil I use.
I'm convinced the obesity epidemic is much more related to high-carb diets than high-fat ones.
I think the most important thing is avoiding processed foods, there's no point giving up pepperoni's and eating cheese strings instead.
Yep, there's a lot of cr@p in processed food which just doesn't need to be there (including too much salt!)
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I don't think eggs do either.
Eggs are very high on cholesterol. the yolk is almost pure cholesterol
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I believe there is research which suggests that just because a food contains cholesterol it isn't necessarily harmful to your cholesterol levels (any more than other types of fat).
And of course your total cholesterol level is made up of "good" (HDL) and "bad" (LDL) cholesterol. As I understand it, saturated fats and trans fats are the main factors raising LDL (and lowering HDL!)
I'm not claiming to be an expert on this, it's just what I've read. It could all be bollocks. But I'm definitely healthier than I was a year ago so I'll carry on eating my egg yolks.
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Yeah, many foods that are high in cholesterol don't effect your cholesterol levels. It's saturated fat that does the damage.
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Yeah, I have loads of eggs and nuts so it's definitely neither of those. Nuts probably lower cholesterol if anything, or at least improve the good to bad cholesterol.
It's old and bad information about eggs, they make little effect on cholesterol levels.
http://www.bhf.org.uk/default.aspx?page=12920
My overall score was 4.2 and I average at least an egg a day......
Too much cheese probably has an effect due to the saturated fat.
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also veggie'ism isn't just about reducing meat for health benefits but reducing suffering for beasts, compassion!
I'd tend to be of the opinion that veganism is about reducing suffering for beasts whereas vegetarianism may be about pretending you care, or trying very hard to convince yourself you do. If indeed that reasoning even enters into your head at all. I've tons of vegan pals who are vegan on the basis that they don't want to be involved in harming animals. But that's probably only a concern at all for two or three of my dozens of veggie pals.
My ex was veggie for the first few years of our relationship so I used to eat quite a lot of vegetarian stuff. I didn't find it hard at all to find interesting things to eat, but I think it would have been hard to keep it interesting every day (we didn't live together until she had started eating meat again). Mostly it was pasta variations, curries and so on. I still enjoy a savoury cous-cous stuffed pepper, now'n'again.
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^ to be fair, if the animals are well looked-after, then vegetarianism does do them less harm than being a meat eater. :lol: also it might be "i can just about manage being a vegetarian, but could never manage veganism, so i'll do what i can".
as i said, i'm not a vegetarian at all, but i don't think it's fair to suggest veganism or nothing...
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I dunno... It's the very worst treated animals that provide dairy products...
I'd quite like to be vegan on that principle, but I've nothing like the will power to stop eating (and using) animal products entirely. I think I could stick to being veggie quite easily but I don't see the point if I'm still going to consume animal products from the really awful production methods.
Brazilian recipes might be something to look up. When I was playing in a samba band we used to play lots of carnevale events and there was always great grub. All of it seemed to consist of beans and sauces but lots of it was great. I'm admittedly unsure as to how authentic it was, but it was always Brazilian folks running the things.
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Yeah, I have loads of eggs and nuts so it's definitely neither of those. Nuts probably lower cholesterol if anything, or at least improve the good to bad cholesterol.
It's old and bad information about eggs, they make little effect on cholesterol levels.
http://www.bhf.org.uk/default.aspx?page=12920
My overall score was 4.2 and I average at least an egg a day......
Too much cheese probably has an effect due to the saturated fat.
My cholesterol has gone from 6.0 in January last year to 3.8 in December.
At my age, I don't suppose I'll be able to improve much more than that, but if I can maintain I'll be reasonably happy.
So anyway, the nuts and eggs don't seem to be doing me any harm.
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How does one find out their cholesterol level? Is it something the doctor would check? I know I've borderline high blood pressure, they're often linked aren't they? Or is that just one of these assumption folks make about all poor health issues being related? :lol:
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Doc can check or some gyms do it as part of their membership. E.g. Nuffield health
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How does one find out their cholesterol level? Is it something the doctor would check? I know I've borderline high blood pressure, they're often linked aren't they? Or is that just one of these assumption folks make about all poor health issues being related? :lol:
I get mine checked every 6 months or so because I'm diabetic. I go along to the local medical centre, they take several blood samples and test various things including thyroid, kidney and liver functions, cholesterol and of course blood sugar.
Type 2 diabetes often goes hand in hand with high blood pressure and high cholesterol (and high body weight!). When I got diagnosed with diabetes they were threatening to put me on statins and blood pressure medication, but I didn't want that, so I was determined to sort myself out. And I have.... apart from the diabetes of course, that doesn't go away. :|
I expect you could go to your GP and ask for blood tests if you want?
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Well, I'm obviously totally naive about some medical conditions. I thought some forms of diabetes could be 'cured'
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Well, I'm obviously totally naive about some medical conditions. I thought some forms of diabetes could be 'cured'
Nope. You can control or even "reverse" the symptoms in various ways - medication, diet, exercise, losing weight. But there's no cure.*
My blood sugar levels are "normal" because I look after myself, but if I ate a load of chocolate or drank a bottle of Lucozade, my blood sugar would go shooting up. Not permanently of course, and if I did it occasionally it wouldn't really do any harm. But if I kept doing that (and a lot of diabetics do).... I'd be in trouble. So personally, I choose to be "good", all of the time. It's very stressful and bloody hard work, but I don't want to go blind, or lose a foot, or whatever, for the sake of pastry, rice or doughnuts - even though I miss them terribly.
(* Sometimes pregnant women develop a form of diabetes called gestational diabetes. I think that might go away again after birth, but I don't know much about it... )
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Brazilian recipes might be something to look up. When I was playing in a samba band we used to play lots of carnevale events and there was always great grub. All of it seemed to consist of beans and sauces but lots of it was great. I'm admittedly unsure as to how authentic it was, but it was always Brazilian folks running the things.
Never really thought about Brazilian food. Might check it out.
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My cholesterol has gone from 6.0 in January last year to 3.8 in December.
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That's an amazing reduction. That's under even the most stringent recommendations, good work I say!
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It is indeed - he looks super healthy too :D
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I'd tend to be of the opinion that veganism is about reducing suffering for beasts whereas vegetarianism may be about pretending you care, or trying very hard to convince yourself you do.
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That's a bit simplistic, but there is probably some truth in it.
Certainly I didn't become a vegetarian mainly due to animal suffering, but more due to the unnatural farming methods which are about yield size and speed of maturity, particularily in chickens. I remember eating a microwave meal whilst watching a programe of chicken farming and that was that. Chickens pumped with hormones so they reach maturity in 70% of the time of what is natural. It just put me off.
Also becuase a vegetarian diet puts a lot less pressure on resources and is a lot more efficient. The world could feed twice as many people if everybody was a vegetarian, so I do like the fact that I'm making a move towards sustainability.
I do miss fish but I don't eat it becuase the oceans are being over fished and some species will never recover. I'd rather not be part of that.
You are correct about the dairy use, but most vegetarians would probably at least look into where their milk and eggs came from and are likely to choose better sources. Sometimes it's better to be doing something than nothing at all, and making the swap from meat to veggie will definitely reduce the pressures on world resources. From a moral standpoint though, I don't see being vegetarian as any better than just cutting down on meat consumption, nothing annoyes me more than holier than thou vegetarians who preach about it. As I see it what you eat is your business and what other people eat is their business!
And I've always said I'll eat meat or fish again if I can catch it and kill it myself. I think (and to bring up a debate from a while ago) there's nothing wrong with hunter gatherers eating meat, that's probably the most sustainable way of doing things.
And really, being vegetarian is a luxury of the time and location. If you are an Inuit living in the Artic circle the traditional way, it's a bit inconvenient to nip to tesco for some veggie burgers!
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Never really thought about Brazilian food. Might check it out.
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I like a good Brazilian :wink:
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I'm not vegetarian but my missus is so at home I'm pretty much vegetarian on a day to day basis. It's no hardship really and it does mean that I really appreciate meat when eating at a restaurant or cafe. If I could recommend one veggie cook book it would be the new Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall one. Packed full of really tasty dishes. Recommended.
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My cholesterol has gone from 6.0 in January last year to 3.8 in December.
That's an amazing reduction. That's under even the most stringent recommendations, good work I say!
It is indeed - he looks super healthy too :D
:lol: Thanks Tom, thanks Dave! :D
Not sure if I'm super healthy or just super skinny though! :wink:
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Sing along!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQynViAF6Ds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQynViAF6Ds)
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(a) I dunno... It's the very worst treated animals that provide dairy products...
(b) I'd quite like to be vegan on that principle, but I've nothing like the will power to stop eating (and using) animal products entirely. I think I could stick to being veggie quite easily but I don't see the point if I'm still going to consume animal products from the really awful production methods.
(a) yep probably
(b) yep same here. plus i mean with the amount of wasted food etc. it's likely to make very little difference if one more person is or isn't vegan. everyone would need to change (or at least a large proportion of people) to effect some kind of change.
Plus i mean i'd rather they just treated the animals better. if they actually treated the animals well, that might arguably be better for them than just stopping using their products. if no-one buys meat any more i doubt a whole bunch of animal reservations are going to spring up, lol.
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So personally, I choose to be "good", all of the time. It's very stressful and bloody hard work, but I don't want to go blind,
maybe something else you could cut out too :oops:
seriously, though, diabetes is no laughing matter. it's commendable you look after yourself so well.
It is indeed - he looks super healthy too :D
does your wife need to start worrying, dave? :oops:
(a) Also becuase a vegetarian diet puts a lot less pressure on resources and is a lot more efficient. The world could feed twice as many people if everybody was a vegetarian, so I do like the fact that I'm making a move towards sustainability.
(b) You are correct about the dairy use, but most vegetarians would probably at least look into where their milk and eggs came from and are likely to choose better sources. Sometimes it's better to be doing something than nothing at all, and making the swap from meat to veggie will definitely reduce the pressures on world resources. (c) From a moral standpoint though, I don't see being vegetarian as any better than just cutting down on meat consumption, nothing annoyes me more than holier than thou vegetarians who preach about it. As I see it what you eat is your business and what other people eat is their business!
(d) And I've always said I'll eat meat or fish again if I can catch it and kill it myself. I think (and to bring up a debate from a while ago) there's nothing wrong with hunter gatherers eating meat, that's probably the most sustainable way of doing things.
(a) i was under the impression that the figures used to back up that assertion were...er... made up. Or at least massively over-exaggerated. i think even monbiot admitted as much at one point in one of his columns.
also I'd say we could feed the entire world currently if things were run a bit better, etc.
not to mention all the land used to grow non-food crops. i don't see why i'd feel guilty that my meat eating is causing starvation because (a) it's not and (b) if that vegetarian has tons of clothes or consumer good etc. etc. they might actually be more to blame than me!
what about people who drink? how much grain is diverted to alcohol production? How much land diverted to grape cultivation? I don't drink ;)
what about if you only wear woolen clothes and eat mutton? is that worse than a veggie who wears tons of cotton and has a diverse wardrobe?
ok i'm labouring the point now. but you know what i mean. It's a bit like the way they always talk about bringing in health taxes. they only look at one very narrow definition of health and ignore arguably way bigger causes.
(b) i'm not vegetarian and i only buy free range eggs. I normally get organic milk, too (though i have no idea if that affects the animals' wellbeing). it's not only vegetarians or vegans who care about animals. :)
(c) :) though i have to admit i'm not too enamoured with having to kill animals to eat them :(
(d) screw that, i'm way too squeamish for that. :lol: Heck i can barely even cook my own meat, let alone kill it. :lol:
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So personally, I choose to be "good", all of the time. It's very stressful and bloody hard work, but I don't want to go blind,
maybe something else you could cut out too :oops:
seriously, though, diabetes is no laughing matter. it's commendable you look after yourself so well.
It is indeed - he looks super healthy too :D
does your wife need to start worrying, dave? :oops:
:lol:
Joking apart, Dave, I've been far too preoccupied in the last year or so to give any thought to that..... errrr.............. department. :|
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also I'd say we could feed the entire world currently if things were run a bit better, etc.
Just to pour some misery on things... :lol: I don't think humans will EVER be able to feed the entire race successfully, irrespective of scientific improvements to food production or whatever. Populations grow until resources don't sustain them. More food (or better distributed food) just makes more people.
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^ well... not so much in the west. we just waste it or throw it out. I wasn't even thinking in that respect, i was more thinking along the lines that the reason poor countries don't have enough food isn't that there isn't enough food, it's that their poor are ruled by corrupt rulers, or western subsidies, etc. etc.
it's like when the teachers at school used to act like you were awful if you didn't eat all your food, as if eating it all somehow made it ok that poor people were starving all over the world.
obviously i'm not saying you should waste food as a matter of principle (LOL), but not wasting it isn't going to solve all the problems either. or even get anywhere near started on solving them.
:lol:
Joking apart, Dave, I've been far too preoccupied in the last year or so to give any thought to that..... errrr.............. department. :|
thanks for the clarification philly o_O
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Joking apart, Dave, I've been far too preoccupied in the last year or so to give any thought to that..... errrr.............. department. :|
thanks for the clarification philly o_O
Well, it was you that... ahem... raised the subject. :P
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Basic humanist social psychology suggests that if everyone was fed and watered adequately their concerns would move up a tier and their societies would develop. The experience in Europe, North America and East Asia shows that more developed societies lead to a marked decline in fertility rates. In 150 years we may well experience global population contraction.
I agree with Dave, we're more than capable of feeding the world, just as a global society we choose not to.
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^ well... not so much in the west. we just waste it or throw it out. I wasn't even thinking in that respect, i was more thinking along the lines that the reason poor countries don't have enough food isn't that there isn't enough food, it's that their poor are ruled by corrupt rulers, or western subsidies, etc. etc.
Oh certainly, not disputing that. The best thing we could do for the poorest nations is leave them to it. No aid at all, but also not using any of their resources. They'd quickly be able to feed themselves adequately - but their populations would erupt at even higher rates.
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^ i dunno about no aid at all, but i definitely agree that a lot of the time we're screwing them over and then giving them a little in aid to make it look like we're helping them :lol:
^ ^ yep :)
you can't really blame people for having tons of kids if half of them die because of cr@p medical care and they need them to look after them in old age because there are no public services.
Joking apart, Dave, I've been far too preoccupied in the last year or so to give any thought to that..... errrr.............. department. :|
thanks for the clarification philly o_O
Well, it was you that... ahem... raised the subject. :P
touché :lol:
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I was vegetarian for about six months. I was trying to impress/get off with somebody. It didn't work, and I found I*really* missed meat. So much so that when I had a burger from the university cafe (not exactly great burgers) it was the best burger I'd ever eaten. Actually it was the best thing I'd *ever* eaten.
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my wife is vegan and im vegetarian....though i only eat what the wife cooks....so i guess im vegan at home..lol
im not strong enuff to be vegan and only lasted a year. i just want to show some support to her so veggie for me..
any-who
i just wanted to say that eating veggie or vegan does not mean your eating healthier....actually, being vegan seems to have caught on as the cool thing to do so many companies are making vegan meat substitutes and other foods that are so overly processed it would be healthier to eat at McDonald's...
two books i like are
isbn 978-1-4027-7905-3 (Clean Start)
isbn 978-0-7382-1273-9 (Viva Vegan)
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So personally, I choose to be "good", all of the time. It's very stressful and bloody hard work, but I don't want to go blind,
maybe something else you could cut out too :oops:
seriously, though, diabetes is no laughing matter. it's commendable you look after yourself so well.
It is indeed - he looks super healthy too :D
does your wife need to start worrying, dave? :oops:
(a) Also becuase a vegetarian diet puts a lot less pressure on resources and is a lot more efficient. The world could feed twice as many people if everybody was a vegetarian, so I do like the fact that I'm making a move towards sustainability.
(b) You are correct about the dairy use, but most vegetarians would probably at least look into where their milk and eggs came from and are likely to choose better sources. Sometimes it's better to be doing something than nothing at all, and making the swap from meat to veggie will definitely reduce the pressures on world resources. (c) From a moral standpoint though, I don't see being vegetarian as any better than just cutting down on meat consumption, nothing annoyes me more than holier than thou vegetarians who preach about it. As I see it what you eat is your business and what other people eat is their business!
(d) And I've always said I'll eat meat or fish again if I can catch it and kill it myself. I think (and to bring up a debate from a while ago) there's nothing wrong with hunter gatherers eating meat, that's probably the most sustainable way of doing things.
(a) i was under the impression that the figures used to back up that assertion were...er... made up. Or at least massively over-exaggerated. i think even monbiot admitted as much at one point in one of his columns.
also I'd say we could feed the entire world currently if things were run a bit better, etc.
not to mention all the land used to grow non-food crops. i don't see why i'd feel guilty that my meat eating is causing starvation because (a) it's not and (b) if that vegetarian has tons of clothes or consumer good etc. etc. they might actually be more to blame than me!
"Cattle-rearing generates more global warming greenhouse gases, as measured in CO2 equivalent, than transportation."
“Livestock are one of the most significant contributors to today’s most serious environmental problems,” senior UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) official Henning Steinfeld said. “Urgent action is required to remedy the situation.”
"The livestock business is among the most damaging sectors to the earth’s increasingly scarce water resources, contributing among other things to water pollution from animal wastes, antibiotics and hormones, chemicals from tanneries, fertilizers and the pesticides used to spray feed crops."
Just pulled a few quotes from this article right here:
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?newsID=20772&CR1=warning
It's important to be aware of the problems our consumption of meat are causing. Sure, it's just one out of many things we are doing to harm our planet and our health, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do something about it.
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"Though some 800 million people on the planet now suffer from hunger or malnutrition, the majority of corn and soy grown in the world feeds cattle, pigs and chickens. This despite the inherent inefficiencies: about two to five times more grain is required to produce the same amount of calories through livestock as through direct grain consumption, according to Rosamond Naylor, an associate professor of economics at Stanford University. It is as much as 10 times more in the case of grain-fed beef in the United States. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/weekinreview/27bittman.html?pagewanted=all
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OK, last post. But I thought this one should focus on how meat effects your health.
"Large studies in England and Germany showed that vegetarians were about 40 percent less likely to develop cancer compared to meat eaters."
http://www.cancerproject.org/diet_cancer/facts/meat.php
"When deaths were broken down into specific causes, eating any kind of red meat increased the chances of dying from heart disease by 16% and from cancer by 10%. Processed red meat raised the risk of heart disease death by 21% and cancer death by 16%."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/mar/12/red-meat-death-heart-cancer
All that said, if you become a vegetarian but compensate by eating a ton of dairy products, then you're just substituting one poison for another. Eat a healthy, balanced vegetarian diet, exercise, and avoid cigarettes and heavy drinking and your health will improve drastically.
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Everyone loves veggie propaganda.
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(http://inflammatoryremarks.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/mozveg.jpg)
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your odds of dying from cancer might be reduced, but i notice it doesn't mention how your odds of being murdered by people sick of the veggie propaganda massively increase :lol:
seriously, though- i'm under no illusions that it's probably not doing some harm. But as i said- everything you do is.
And cancer is only one disease you can get. a pretty unpleasant one, granted, but still.
"All that said, if you become a vegetarian but compensate by eating a ton of dairy products, then you're just substituting one poison for another."
lolwut? you have a weird definition of a poison.
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Everyone loves veggie propaganda.
Propaganda is the deliberate manipulation of facts in order to control people. What I posted is NOT propaganda. Honestly I thought you would have been one of the more receptive, because I posted facts and findings from studies as reported by a variety of sources. Anyway, the quotes are just little snippets of the articles for illustrative purposes, you have to actually click on the links to read the whole story. You can debate the health effects, because it really comes down to what risks you are willing to take. Just about everything increases your chances of an early death, so everyone has the right to determine how they balance those risks. However, the environmental impacts are extremely important and effects us all. Like I said before, the meat industry isn't the only thing killing our planet, but it's a major player and must be addressed.
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your odds of dying from cancer might be reduced, but i notice it doesn't mention how your odds of being murdered by people sick of the veggie propaganda massively increase :lol:
seriously, though- i'm under no illusions that it's probably not doing some harm. But as i said- everything you do is.
And cancer is only one disease you can get. a pretty unpleasant one, granted, but still.
"All that said, if you become a vegetarian but compensate by eating a ton of dairy products, then you're just substituting one poison for another."
lolwut? you have a weird definition of a poison.
Ok obviously it's not actual poison, I just used hyperbole to illustrate my point. Dairy products aren't very good for your health, at least not how we consume them in the west. I totally understand that you aren't concerned by the health risks. The more important aspect is the effect on the environment, anyway.
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Everyone loves veggie propaganda.
Propaganda is the deliberate manipulation of facts in order to control people. What I posted is NOT propaganda. Honestly I thought you would have been one of the more receptive, because I posted facts and findings from studies as reported by a variety of sources. Anyway, the quotes are just little snippets of the articles for illustrative purposes, you have to actually click on the links to read the whole story.
Indeed you do. But reducing extremely complex (and massively debated) issues to such simplistic statements IS propaganda - information presented in a biased fashion to support or promote a specific cause or ideology. And in this case, it harms the cause more than it promotes it.
There is also questionable science involved in the red meat cancer link study. You can't make conclusions based on diet without considering all other lifestyle aspects. Ben Goldacre would have a riot.
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^ +1
I could be wrong but that might be the study that even george monbiot admitted was dodgy.
Ok obviously it's not actual poison, I just used hyperbole to illustrate my point. Dairy products aren't very good for your health, at least not how we consume them in the west. I totally understand that you aren't concerned by the health risks. The more important aspect is the effect on the environment, anyway.
there are health risks related to not eating enough dairy, too.
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there are health risks related to not eating enough dairy, too.
false statement. there is nothing in dairy that can not be easily had elsewhere.
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Everyone loves veggie propaganda.
Propaganda is the deliberate manipulation of facts in order to control people. What I posted is NOT propaganda. Honestly I thought you would have been one of the more receptive, because I posted facts and findings from studies as reported by a variety of sources. Anyway, the quotes are just little snippets of the articles for illustrative purposes, you have to actually click on the links to read the whole story.
Indeed you do. But reducing extremely complex (and massively debated) issues to such simplistic statements IS propaganda - information presented in a biased fashion to support or promote a specific cause or ideology. And in this case, it harms the cause more than it promotes it.
There is also questionable science involved in the red meat cancer link study. You can't make conclusions based on diet without considering all other lifestyle aspects. Ben Goldacre would have a riot.
I see your point, although I couldn't paste the entire article into a post, so the quotes were the best I could do. Quoting the articles, to which I posted the link, by the way, is not propaganda. The quotes are also backed up by research, which you can verify by actually reading the articles. Honestly, the propaganda argument is really just a red herring in this context, because you're diverting the conversation from the actual issues.
If you read the articles, and Im not getting the sense that you are, it says that the studies controlled for other variables, such as smoking, lifestyle, etc. in order to isolate the meats effect. In fact, one of the studies was on a group of people who don't drink, smoke, etc. but some of them are also vegetarians and some are not.
Finally, I want to say that I'm not an extremist vegetarian/vegan who wants to force the lifestyle on others. In fact, I'm not even a true vegetarian, as I occasionally eat fish. I just think it's an extremely important issue that our society has chosen to generally ignore.
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there are health risks related to not eating enough dairy, too.
There are health risks associated with everything... It's how you balance them up. For example I don't smoke, but most of my working life I worked shifts which screws you up by not giving your body enough/consistent down time. The reckoning is that it literally takes years off your life. Anyhow I stopped doing those when I just physically couldn't do it any more. I actually quite liked them and there were many benefits, not just financially, you got lots of time off and it was nice to be off when everyone was at work. It totally freaked me out just how busy the world was when I came off shift...
Likewise meat. As with so many other things, it's probably bad for me, but it's very, very tasty. Rabbit food simply isn't. As I enjoy food I accept the risks in order to gain pleasure from eating.
I look at life like this (having had one of my best friends die very young), you can pretty much pop your clogs at any time. Freak accident on the way to work, fit blokes even have heart attacks in their 20's these days playing footy. Life really is too short not to enjoy it as much as you can while you're fit and healthy enough to do it.
My father regrets not buying a sports car and being a tight arse all his life. Pancreatitis nearly killed him and caused him to re-evaluate his philosophy. Sadly his hips and back are so knackered now he can't drive the car he always dreamed of and now actively encourages me to do it now while I can (but still be sensible when it comes to planning for the future). It's balance essentially.
On to the global warming thing.
I'm sure it'll sound selfish to the people that think I'm killing the planet in one way or another. But look at it this way; we're part of this planet's eco-system for better or for worse (mainly the latter) and yes, what we do absolutely has a knock on effect on a global scale.
There is irrefutable proof that the planet is warming as there's no denying that the ice caps are melting. Relatively speaking we're still coming out of an ice age (thinking of this on a planetary scale, not a human one). Will we have impact on that? Almost certainly. Are we causing it? That simply cannot be proven one way or the other. Anything published stating 'facts' on this are more often that not best guesses portrayed as facts to push a political agenda. Is it a bad thing on a planetary scale? Who knows!
As such it cannot be proven that cows farting is causing the planet to melt... If so, using my dodgy science, vegitarians (as cows also are) fart more and are also causing global warming. Eat meat (vegitarians) and save the planet!
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I look at life like this (having had one of my best friends die very young), you can pretty much pop your clogs at any time. Freak accident on the way to work, fit blokes even have heart attacks in their 20's these days playing footy. Life really is too short not to enjoy it as much as you can while you're fit and healthy enough to do it.
Sorry about your friend John. A close friend's younger brother was killed in a traffic accident when I was 18, and I think that has a lot to do with me having the same attitude to life as you do. You have one shot at it, so enjoy it while you can...
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I agree. But some peoples shot is different to to other peoples. As long as were all doing our own and leaving each other to get on with it then it's fine :D
And my shot will hopefully include one day owning a car like this as well!
http://juansolo.demon.co.uk/motas/juno.html
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I agree. But some peoples shot is different to to other peoples. As long as were all doing our own and leaving each other to get on with it then it's fine :D
And my shot will hopefully include one day owning a car like this as well!
http://juansolo.demon.co.uk/motas/juno.html
That'll probably be for sale at the end of the year the way things are going :(
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I agree. But some peoples shot is different to to other peoples. As long as were all doing our own and leaving each other to get on with it then it's fine :D
And my shot will hopefully include one day owning a car like this as well!
http://juansolo.demon.co.uk/motas/juno.html
That'll probably be for sale at the end of the year the way things are going :(
Bummer. Get it out as much over summer as you can then!
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Got Spa/Zandvoort booked for July/Aug. Gonna try and squeeze in an Oulton or Silverstone before it. That'll be it I suspect. Co-owner was made redundant for xmas :( Luckily they got him a load of track time for his leaving present and I'm paying for the Eurotrip (unless he gets a job in the meantime). If things are looking equally grim post-Spa, we'll probably have to flog it. Shame but that's the way it goes.
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false statement. there is nothing in dairy that can not be easily had elsewhere.
well sure, but it's a heck of a lot easier to get it in dairy products most of the time
Sorry about your friend John. A close friend's younger brother was killed in a traffic accident when I was 18, and I think that has a lot to do with me having the same attitude to life as you do. You have one shot at it, so enjoy it while you can...
+1
and sorry to hear about your friend's brother, too
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Everyone loves veggie propaganda.
Propaganda is the deliberate manipulation of facts in order to control people. What I posted is NOT propaganda. Honestly I thought you would have been one of the more receptive, because I posted facts and findings from studies as reported by a variety of sources. Anyway, the quotes are just little snippets of the articles for illustrative purposes, you have to actually click on the links to read the whole story.
Indeed you do. But reducing extremely complex (and massively debated) issues to such simplistic statements IS propaganda - information presented in a biased fashion to support or promote a specific cause or ideology. And in this case, it harms the cause more than it promotes it.
There is also questionable science involved in the red meat cancer link study. You can't make conclusions based on diet without considering all other lifestyle aspects. Ben Goldacre would have a riot.
I see your point, although I couldn't paste the entire article into a post, so the quotes were the best I could do. Quoting the articles, to which I posted the link, by the way, is not propaganda. The quotes are also backed up by research, which you can verify by actually reading the articles. Honestly, the propaganda argument is really just a red herring in this context, because you're diverting the conversation from the actual issues.
If you read the articles, and Im not getting the sense that you are, it says that the studies controlled for other variables, such as smoking, lifestyle, etc. in order to isolate the meats effect. In fact, one of the studies was on a group of people who don't drink, smoke, etc. but some of them are also vegetarians and some are not.
Finally, I want to say that I'm not an extremist vegetarian/vegan who wants to force the lifestyle on others. In fact, I'm not even a true vegetarian, as I occasionally eat fish. I just think it's an extremely important issue that our society has chosen to generally ignore.
I've read the articles. A couple times prior to your posting them and skimmed them again since. They're widely posted on forums with ALF and PETA folks post a lot and are equally widely panned by folks with far more area-specific knowledge than I do so I don't really care to examine them in more detail again. I've been to a couple lectures centred around the red meat (and other similar publications) one in fact.
The controls are all fine and well for TRYING to narrow down specific effects. But over such a long period of time, it is never more than educated guessing - if it's ever even that.
And propaganda is generally backed by research. Whose research, whose funding and their methods are the issues. You've read far too much into a flippant, throwaway post anyway. The word propaganda was there only because of how little heed I think anyone should pay to that type of soundbite rhetoric employed by morons like PETA. You gave links to the articles sure, but you picked out sensationalist quips to make a point which is debated by people with vastly more experience and knowledge in the field than (i'm almost sure) anyone posting here, and not nearly so certain as you implied.
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Got Spa/Zandvoort booked for July/Aug. Gonna try and squeeze in an Oulton or Silverstone before it. That'll be it I suspect. Co-owner was made redundant for xmas :( Luckily they got him a load of track time for his leaving present and I'm paying for the Eurotrip (unless he gets a job in the meantime). If things are looking equally grim post-Spa, we'll probably have to flog it. Shame but that's the way it goes.
Let me know if you manage to get to Oulton, might pop down if you do.....
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Me too if it's a weekend...
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Got Spa/Zandvoort booked for July/Aug. Gonna try and squeeze in an Oulton or Silverstone before it. That'll be it I suspect. Co-owner was made redundant for xmas :( Luckily they got him a load of track time for his leaving present and I'm paying for the Eurotrip (unless he gets a job in the meantime). If things are looking equally grim post-Spa, we'll probably have to flog it. Shame but that's the way it goes.
Let me know if you manage to get to Oulton, might pop down if you do.....
Will do. If you're reasonably small and flexible I'll take you out for a run.
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Got Spa/Zandvoort booked for July/Aug. Gonna try and squeeze in an Oulton or Silverstone before it. That'll be it I suspect. Co-owner was made redundant for xmas :( Luckily they got him a load of track time for his leaving present and I'm paying for the Eurotrip (unless he gets a job in the meantime). If things are looking equally grim post-Spa, we'll probably have to flog it. Shame but that's the way it goes.
Let me know if you manage to get to Oulton, might pop down if you do.....
Will do. If you're reasonably small and flexible I'll take you out for a run.
I'm neither but I'll make myself fit if I have to! But that would be great, thanks, keep us posted!
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Dragging it roughly back OT, I get a lot of mileage out of this book http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Rasta-Cookbook-Laura-Osborne/dp/0865431337/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333361830&sr=1-1