Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: witeter on March 29, 2012, 06:15:12 PM
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Hey guys-just wanted some advice regarding a good amp that has a great metal rhythm tone AND a separate channel where you can dial in a great lead tone AND a clean channel (this doesnt have to be pristine but has to be clean).
Ideally i would want them all with separate eq's.
My problem is that countless heavy metal amps have a 'rhythm' and 'lead' channel but i tend to find that the rhythm channel never seems to be tight and chunky enough for metal imo-seems more of a crunchy rock channel while all the metal gain has been chucked onto the 'lead' channel; so inevitably I end up using the lead channel for everything metal leaving me with not as many options as i would like for a channel only for solos/leadwork. The one I have found so far that ticks the boxes is the Peavey 3120-any other suggestions? thanks
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Framus Cobra
ENGL PBall or Pball 2
Randall/Egnater modular stuff
Something custom from a small builder
using a Tubescreamer type as a boost on your current crunch channel, ideally one that cuts a lot of bass perhaps consider a clone built to your needs by one of the pedal guys here. Pre-preamp shaping/boosting is as important as the amp/cab, IMHO.
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A Diezel.
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Cheers guys- Ive just seen that the Engl Invader has also what im after. I use a boost already but the thing im after is having a lead channel with own eq so i can make my lead sound different from the rhythm rather than sharing the channel-so i can cut bass enhance mids and treble while adding more gain using the lead channel-as for rhythm i always want it punchy and tight with not as much gain dialled in.
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I don't know if it'll have enough gain for you, all depends what you mean/refer to when you say 'Metal', but the Fender EVH III has 3 independent channels with a fair amount of gain available.
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Hey Brow thanks for that-im afraid that i would probably find channel 2 (rhythm) lacking as its more a 'brown sound' crunchy style
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+1 on Randall Egnater modular
Get a Randall RM100 - you might be able to get one cheap-ish
then load up 3 modules of your choice
Look here for some wicked custom modules - esp for Metal
http://salvationmods.com/ (http://salvationmods.com/)
Get maybe
loneclean
Angel B
And select a lead channel of your liking
Then you can dial in exactly the amp of your dreams
AND if you collect other modules you can make it a different amp whenever you choose, so if you wanted to do blues, classic rock etc just for a short time you can and then put it back to Metal for when you need the METAL amp
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:o The price of those modules...
Still, you can't buy an amp with an ENGL inspired channel AND a Diezel-esque channel any other way and the amount of work he does is extensive. Worth the price when you think about it like that. That Diezel-like channel is derived from the Herbert, just in case you were wondering what model was used as inspiration.
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I like the idea of the modular stuff.
wonder how easy it would be to mod say... the power stage in the RM100? variable negative feedback, bias, valve choice... maybe even a reconfigurable phase inverter.
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Probably not too bad for the power section. I've seen gut shots, but haven't seen schemes. Dunno about the PI. The thing that gets me is being stuck with 2 valves per channel. Sure there's a lot you CAN do, but you're never going to do a spot-on VH4, Deliverance, Mark IV, 5150, etc on Egnater or Randall boards.
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are there schems for the modules kicking around?
I just did a little googling. I didn't realise that ALL the modules share an input stage mounted in the chassis.
So V1 is shared by all modules, then there is a valve buffered loop and a PI which is also shared.
That being the case, I guess you could do a fair bit, but you'd still be restricted. I'd like to get hold of one and have a play about with it.
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That Randall looks incredible!! complete customisation! i love it cheers guys-has anyone had experience with the it? what are the pros/cons?
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ive heard the RM100 can be a little hissy, noisey. But I've played Felines Egnater setup which is a 4 module rack unit and it sounds really good. One thing to keep in mind, buying any off the shelf multi channel is amp is always going to involve some compromise, you might not like something about 1 or 2 of the channels but you can get by with em... thats what i've always found with multichannel heads. The modular stuff gives you a bit more freedom. There must be some good forums that guys using these things hit up?
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This thread has some schemes: http://mtsforum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=4324&highlight=rm100c
That input stage burns one triode. Must not have run that one by Steven Fryette first. :wink:
Witeter, the pros are there's a huge amount of sounds to be had and the cons are there's a huge amount of sounds to be bought. You might develop a similar sickness as Feline. I wish I could find a thread with a pic of his rack(s). Very impressive collection.
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damn. why do schematics hate my mac!
cap files?
so it has a spare triode at the input? yeah why not just run it parallel, even if its just for the 3dB noise reduction?
there is an RM50 on ebay. hmmmmmm
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Input stage. Yeah that cap format is cr@p.
(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5433/rm100input.jpg)
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I dont know anything about electronics but does that mean that the Randall design in a bit lame? is Egnater better?
i love the idea of the separate modules, even though i know i may get hooked at least id feel im getting close to the sounds i want within one amp.
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nah ignore us. by 'cap', we mean the file format for some schematics we were trying to look at.
if you look at that picture, the sideways oval shape is a 12AX7 preamp valve, and where it says 1,2,3 joined together with the lines and black dots, that is a gain stage which is not being used for anything.
we were talking about the possibility of using that stage as a parallel triode, which is the kind of input stage you find in a VHT Deliverance or a Sommatone Outlaw. If you set it up right you get a 3dB reduction is noise at the input, there are also probably some tonal differences. There are a couple of values of parts on there you wouldn't see on V1 in many amps. Not marshalls or fenders etc anyway. Doesn't mean its bad at all, we are just being nerds. haha.
I see it has 12vDC heaters though. that is a nice touch, should keep it free of heater hum.
I don't know what differences there are between the egnater and randall stuff. it seems a little hard to find the egnater modular stuff.
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Ah ok cool-no worries-im seriouly intrigued about the Randall amp and the customisation options-also heard a clip of the KH3 module and id happily take that as my rhythm tone no problem-just need to find somewhere where i can try the amp out-they dont seem to be as readily available over here it seems?
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where are you based?
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Cardiff-south wales-i know theres a randall dealer in Bristol ( absolute guitars) but they hardly have any amps in stock and certainly not the ones i wanna try out.
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+ 1 on the modular stuff. I got en Egnater MOD50 (only two channels), but it seriously rocks and whit the modding comunity spitting out excellent mods you got a hell of vareity.
You could also check out the Egnater Armageddon. I can't remember if it has seperate EQs for all three channels though.
Like Dave said earlier Diezel seems like a good possibility as well.
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Yeah a Diezel would be great but its way out of my price range at the mo. The modular stuff really takes my fancy-and can u use egnater modules in the randall heads?
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This thread has some schemes: http://mtsforum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=4324&highlight=rm100c
That input stage burns one triode. Must not have run that one by Steven Fryette first. :wink:
Witeter, the pros are there's a huge amount of sounds to be had and the cons are there's a huge amount of sounds to be bought. You might develop a similar sickness as Feline. I wish I could find a thread with a pic of his rack(s). Very impressive collection.
It gets worse and worse I tell ya
I just scored an Egnater Mod50 from Catalyst77 so my amp life is complete (don't believe it).
I should do a gear shot - but I don't have a fish eye lens that will take it all in :D
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Wuold you say an Egnater is superior to a Randall build qualitywise? what about the modules? are they better/worse
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I think that the USA made heads and Rack preamps are a little better made and the Egnater modules are very good
Having said that I have had no issues with the Randall modules -
Although I have recently changed a few coupling capacitors on a few of them for snobbish reasons
I put orange drop and Mallory equivalents in place of some of the ones that I thought were a bit cheap and yes it helped make the sound even better.
The modified modules are pretty out of this world though!
The Randall Mr Scary is freaking awesome and the Hammet KH2 and KH3 are good too
The newer Scott Ian ones are good too
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Sounds great to me! so Feline-have you got the RM100? or do you use their preamp modules for recording,etc
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No - I went down the Egnater M4 and Randall RM4 rack preamp route mainly as I just use at home & work so I team them up with power amps etc.
I did get a RM100 Lynch Box and 4x12 but it was huge (and LOUD) and not practical for home, so I sold it on
I have given in and gotten a trade on an Egnater Mod50 which I may wheel out for guitar shows etc
My workshop rack
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/amps/MTS1.jpg)
This was the Lynchbox:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/amps/lynchbox3.jpg)
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Mmmm tasty-the Lynchbox looks cool, thanks for the pics! i should see if anyone has a randall in my area i can try out
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Yeah a Diezel would be great but its way out of my price range at the mo. The modular stuff really takes my fancy-and can u use egnater modules in the randall heads?
You can use the Egnater modules with the Randall heads, but only the A channel on the dual Egnater modules. Egnater is soon doing a new limited run of the their modules and they'll upgrade them so you can choose between channel A and B if you use a Randall amp.
I haven't tried any stock Randall modules, but if you get in to the modular bizz I would suggest you to look for the modded stuff. The stock Egnater modules that I own are great, but you can even have these modded if you fancy.
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Yeah the modded samples i heard sounded great! i phoned a Randall Bristol dealer and they unfortunately told me that no more modular Randall heads are entering the Uk-theyve been pulled because it never really took off over here :-( seems i may have to look elsewhere or wait for a new Randall modular product,etc to actually try one.
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Yeah the modded samples i heard sounded great! i phoned a Randall Bristol dealer and they unfortunately told me that no more modular Randall heads are entering the Uk-theyve been pulled because it never really took off over here :-( seems i may have to look elsewhere or wait for a new Randall modular product,etc to actually try one.
Unfortunately I think Randall is phaseing out the modular line because they haven't sold enough of the stuff. So it might be hard to come by a dealer with an amp you can try out. I think Egnater plan to do at least one last update on the modular series with their highly awaited E2 preamp that let you run two modules through the loop of any amp so you can incorporate the moduls into any rig.
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Ah ok fair enough, but Egnater stuff seems even harder to find-think i may have to look at the head route again. Cheers guys
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Mor in york had one of the big diezels in second hand, couple of other big metal amps too (not sure models, not my kinda amp but may be worth a look) web site is arse
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Yeah the modded samples i heard sounded great! i phoned a Randall Bristol dealer and they unfortunately told me that no more modular Randall heads are entering the Uk-theyve been pulled because it never really took off over here :-( seems i may have to look elsewhere or wait for a new Randall modular product,etc to actually try one.
Randall had a 10 year license from Egnater to use his design which has now expired so there won't be any new Randall stuff.
Because it was a little pricy it didn't catch on , but those who saw it's potential have really enjoyed it.
Randall had a little bit of QC issue here and there but generally been pretty good
Some shops have done crazy clearance sales once the line got discontinued like this shop in Edinburgh:
http://mtsforum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=15482&highlight=&sid=2deb11ee5cb14d870ac5009ec2045a24 (http://mtsforum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=15482&highlight=&sid=2deb11ee5cb14d870ac5009ec2045a24)
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Yeah the modded samples i heard sounded great! i phoned a Randall Bristol dealer and they unfortunately told me that no more modular Randall heads are entering the Uk-theyve been pulled because it never really took off over here :-( seems i may have to look elsewhere or wait for a new Randall modular product,etc to actually try one.
Unfortunately I think Randall is phaseing out the modular line because they haven't sold enough of the stuff. So it might be hard to come by a dealer with an amp you can try out. I think Egnater plan to do at least one last update on the modular series with their highly awaited E2 preamp that let you run two modules through the loop of any amp so you can incorporate the moduls into any rig.
I wish egnater would hurry up with this. I mean, for example look at this situation. trying to find a 3 channel head... when with this fella all you need is a single channel with a loop and you can extended that to 3 channels and two of them would be modular. I think thats cool. shame none of my amps have FX loops. ha.
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+1 on the Diezel and +1 on the Randall MTS route.
I owned a Diezel Einstein and it was great. And I do own an RM22 now with a modded Super V and a Stock The Judge. It's only 18W but this little head with a few pedals can give you anything. Love the MTS stuff.
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Thanks guys-id love a Diezel but with the price and lack of availability to try them out i think i may have to look elsewhere. Just wondered - has anyone got experience with the Peavey JSX head? has good reviews and on paper sounds like what im looking for. Its a discontinued model i believe. Will be trying one out in practice tonight.
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Thanks guys-id love a Diezel but with the price and lack of availability to try them out i think i may have to look elsewhere. Just wondered - has anyone got experience with the Peavey JSX head? has good reviews and on paper sounds like what im looking for. Its a discontinued model i believe. Will be trying one out in practice tonight.
It's great value for money, but too fizzy for me. I'd also look closely at the EVH 5150 III (or its 50W mini brother)
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I'd also look closely at the EVH 5150 III (or its 50W mini brother)
I suggested the same amp earlier. I think the OP said he needed more gain that what was available on the Blue/Crunch channel.
The Red channel can get really driven though, so I still think it's a good option :lol:
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Marshall JVM should do what you want and is fairly readily available on Ebay. Four channels should cover what you want. I looked at it closely myself but in the end went for the H&K Switchblade instead and I have no regrets. Endless possibilities in a very compact format and some great tones in there, though I agree that with this sort of amp, you're never going to like everything. I find I use the clean channel quite a bit, the crunch channel sparingly, the lead channel a lot and the ultra channel very little. The thing is, there's so much variety in it that there's something for most people and in a covers band it's perfect. I was overly concerned at first by purists saying it wasn't a 'real' valve amp as the channels were 'voiced' similar to other famous amps but eventually I concluded that if it has valves in the preamp, valves in the power amp, behaves like a valve amp and most importantly, sounds like a valve amp, then it probably is a valve amp. Of course, these aren't so readily available used but I'd certainly look at a Marshall JVM as it has loads of variety, will do everything you want, you can get them second hand and there's a lot of respected guitarists ranging from Joe Satriani to Synyster Gates using them so it can't be that bad. If they'd done a 4 channel 50w combo I'd have had one for sure.
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Thanks again guys-yeah the EVH 5150 III looks great btw so yeah i'll see if i can try one out. And thanks for the Marshall suggestion-dunno theres something about Marshalls that doesnt seem to grab me... maybe i should give that particular amp a chance. Will be at practice soon and will report back on the JSX. Thanks for the help
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Well, I tried the JSX yesterday and i enjoyed playing with it. It died half way through the practice though (it was pretty battered to be fair) but what i enjoyed the most was the resonance control-it added an incredible punch to the chest without getting muddy. So i think that whichever amp i buy next will have to have a similar option. The crunch channel was great with my Maxon chucked in front and the lead channel seemed decent also though as i said earlier, it died almost as we started to go through the songs. It was much noisier and hotter than my mesa but again i know mesa's are renowned for running quite cold. So first impressions were good but would need to play through it further.
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Koch Supernova, 5 channels, midi switching
It's spec is amazing. I've not played one but if it sounds anything like my Powertone II it will be right up there.
http://www.koch-amps.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=57&Itemid=27
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Well had a great time this afternoon playing through a load of amps-worked my way through Peavey 6505, Peavey 6534, Peavey JSX, Peavey 3120 and Blackstar S1 104-EL34.
The one head that impressed me the most was the Peavey 3120-nice clean sound that i suspect would take effects really well-incredible rhythm channel and good lead channel. The rhythm channel was just what im after punchiness wise-has a very responsive eq and has clarity and authority...killed the blackstar in so many ways. Anyways-i may be getting this as my new head.
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Heya witeter! I think we may have a mutual friend, t'other guitarist in my band (Tacoma Narrows Bridge Disaster) - I believe he knows one of you Insuna guys anyway! :)
Anyways... I use a Fryette Sig X. Each channel is really nice and offers a wide range of tones. Though the KT88 power section is a little 'American' sounding, if that makes sense. Not really like a Marshall - crank a JCM800 or a DSL, and the extra aggressive mid-range bite you get from the EL34's... just sounds lush. I've played a JSX too, great amps. I'd be keen to try out a Peavey 3210 as well, although I had naively assumed it was just a re-badged JSX, since Satch took his endorsement to other places. Could be wrong on that. Will have to try one out!
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Hey man yeah i guess thats probably Bag!(or thats what Dave-our drummer calls him lol) fancy that :-)
Yeah the 3120 is actually a relaunched XXX but with a slightly different eq system and EL34s-ppl say it sounds better though so whatever has been 'tweaked' has been for the better. I also like its very quiet unlike the JSX i tried.
Normally im in 2 minds about EL34s but the 3120 had them in and sounded awesome!
Yeah was recently reading about the Fryette-looks great and has very good reviews-and sounds very versatile also. That must have set you back a fair bob though! I think the JSX has been relaunched as the XXX II btw.
So yeah in process of selling my Mesa tu fund the Peavey :-) cant wait!
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Just saw this ebay sale for Randall mod100 and thought of you
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RANDALL-RM100-Head-Black-Great-condition-/300692992079?pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Amplifiers_RL&hash=item4602b2f04f#ht_663wt_1398 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RANDALL-RM100-Head-Black-Great-condition-/300692992079?pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Amplifiers_RL&hash=item4602b2f04f#ht_663wt_1398)
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OMG man thanks! sooo tempting-my only worry is the fact Randall dont seem to be taking this technology forward?..ive got my eye on 3 amps then now-what would you suggest?
-Randall RM100
-Diezel Eisntein 50w
-Fryette Sig x
Thanks
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OMG man thanks! sooo tempting-my only worry is the fact Randall dont seem to be taking this technology forward?..ive got my eye on 3 amps then now-what would you suggest?
-Randall RM100
-Diezel Eisntein 50w
-Fryette Sig x
Thanks
They don't need to take the technology forward - especially as their 10 year license has expired and not been renewed
Valve amp tech is old stuff and other modders are giving us all the fresh options via the modules
There is a mod to let the RM100 take dual Egnater modules and Egnater are renewing their line next year on the modular range
Here is a link to some of the current mods available:
http://salvationmods.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=2&Itemid=2 (http://salvationmods.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=2&Itemid=2)
I'm liking the look of the new Angel-E:
ANGEL E with 4 band EQ, as used on Steve More signature amp, E580 Tube preamp, E530 tube preamp etc.
BASS, LO MID, HI MID, TREBLE...together with CONTOUR and MID EDGE switches it is the most versatile EQ ever used in MTS module.
(http://img4.rajce.idnes.cz/d0405/1/1453/1453099_ae35e45c54f4ffc38ed67ec7e9f25dd2/images/IMG_1228.jpg)
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OMG man thanks! sooo tempting-my only worry is the fact Randall dont seem to be taking this technology forward?..ive got my eye on 3 amps then now-what would you suggest?
-Randall RM100
-Diezel Eisntein 50w
-Fryette Sig x
Thanks
Out of those three, discounting the fact I am selling a Sig X, I'd say Sig X or Randall RM100.