Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Twinfan on March 30, 2012, 07:39:21 PM
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Yep - New Attenuator Day! 8)
I've never owned one before, but I've been considering one to let me open up the 65 Amps Empire a bit in the flat to let it 'breathe', but keep the volume down. £80 on eBay this week and a nearly new Weber Mass Lite 50 has arrived - not a bad price I thought, as they're £130+ new.
I've just tried it out at home with my Dual Terror and it seems to work perfectly - result!
(https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/masslite.jpg)
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That sounds like a bit of a bargain Dave - good that you'll be able to use the 65 a bit more in the flat.
With this being a new piece of kit for you is it likely that you'll be looking for something better in the next few weeks (or hours) :wink:
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That's a good price! Nice tool to keep friendship with the neighbours.
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Cool beans Dave, sounds like a bargain too! I've been deliberately staying away from GuitarGuitar because I really love those '65 Amps. On another note I didn't know you had a Dual Terror! I just got me another Korean made Tiny Terror (sold my first one to forum member Pete24 and regretted it) and love it through my old Orange 4 x 12 with G12H30's. You have to let us know how that Weber turns out, I didn't really like the THD Hotplate I had a while bacK and may consider the Weber.
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I've heard a few bad reviews about the THD. What did you not like about it? I also know people who lover theirs!
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I can't remember what the setting were, but once I dialed back the volume more than 1 notch it seems to take away some of the dynamics of the amp? It was ok with loads of gain, but for a crunchier sound it just took the edge off it if that makes sense?
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Yeah, I've got a Dual Terror as a rehearsal/gig backup amp. It's nice and handy, sounds great and was a good price used (£300).
Ian - I've no idea what a "better" attenuator is so I think I'll stick with this thanks! You'll have to try it out for yourself next week :)
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Thats what I like to see, an Ebay bargain. Love getting them myself and love to see others grabbing them too.
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sweet
those webers are meant to be pretty good. haven't tried any attenuators, though :lol: But if i did think of getting one, would probably be a weber as it has a good rep and isn't silly money
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I've no idea what a "better" attenuator is so I think I'll stick with this thanks! You'll have to try it out for yourself next week :)
Me neither! Definitely interested in this although I have power scaling. Perhaps for a future purchase - I really miss the sound of my HRD, only sold it as it was way too powerful for the house!
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Very interresting stuff. Have been thinking about getting an attenuator for a while now and looking at these Webers, they seem pretty good.
What I really find interresting is the way they build most of theirs, including the one twinfan got. Not using resistors, but rather a speaker motor seems interresting and seems to work.
Now if I only knew which one I should get....^^
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Definitely interested in this although I have power scaling.
I have the Master Voltage control on the '65, but I think a combination of that and the attenuator will give a better overall tone. Power Scaling is good, but running output valves at tiny voltages has its drawbacks. on tone.
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I'd never really conisdered that. Showing my technical knowledge limitations here but I always assumed that power scaling was similar to/the same as attentuation.
Definitely interested in trying this out Dave and seeing/hearing what the difference in using this and power scaling is. Do you think there would be much difference i.e. running my amp at full power but with an attentuator vs running it at a largely power scaled output?
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I can't remember what the setting were, but once I dialed back the volume more than 1 notch it seems to take away some of the dynamics of the amp? It was ok with loads of gain, but for a crunchier sound it just took the edge off it if that makes sense?
Yeah - makes sense and similar to other things I have heard.
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Yep, there'll be a difference. Power Scaling down to tiny levels on its own gives a 'small' sound I've found. Running it at say half, with an attenuator knocking some dB off at the back end, should work well. Compared to just the volume control on my Dual Terror adding the attenuator gives a larger, rounder sound at the same overall volume level.
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Sounds like it will definitely be worthy of an experiment.
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Yep, there'll be a difference. Power Scaling down to tiny levels on its own gives a 'small' sound I've found. Running it at say half, with an attenuator knocking some dB off at the back end, should work well. Compared to just the volume control on my Dual Terror adding the attenuator gives a larger, rounder sound at the same overall volume level.
i didn't realise that either, but i guess that sorta makes sense. I know they always say running an attenuator to get you down to bedroom volumes kills your tone, and that powerscaling (or similar) is a better fix for that. But perhaps running powerscaling/VVR plus an attenuator together, so neither is doing massive amounts of attenuation, is the best option overall.
I've never messed with attenuators myself as my vintage-voiced amps are either already pretty low wattage or have VVR (or both). my higher wattage amps are higher gain, more modern things, so I figured (perhaps incorrectly) that there wasn't a massive need for an attenuator with them (especially since most attenuators are £100+ :lol: ).
:)
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Eminence also do those "flux density modulation" speakers that employ a mechanical change in the speaker to drop output level. So i'll raise you Dave with two of those, a Weber Mass, power scaling, THD Yellow Jackets and a PPMIV all sitting on top of 3 Grammas.
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Eminence also do those "flux density modulation" speakers that employ a mechanical change in the speaker to drop output level. So i'll raise you Dave with two of those, a Weber Mass, power scaling, THD Yellow Jackets and a PPMIV all sitting on top of 3 Grammas.
Ive been speaking with Tom about these recently and he said they actually work really well.
But on max attenuation it makes the valve error lights on his infinium bugera come on which worried him.
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I had a Weber Mass 150 (I think) for my Orange.
It was great - but I did blow the Orange up using it. I'm sure it's better with modern amps, but the Orange really didn't like. For the brief time it worked though it sounded awesome!!!
:D
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I had a Weber Mass 150 (I think) for my Orange.
It was great - but I did blow the Orange up using it. I'm sure it's better with modern amps, but the Orange really didn't like. For the brief time it worked though it sounded awesome!!!
:D
i love the recurring myth of attenuators damaging amps :D
The thing that actually damages it is the fact people run the amps close to or at full pelt with an attenuator.
If you were running the amp full on without it you would still end up with the exact same issues
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Eminence also do those "flux density modulation" speakers that employ a mechanical change in the speaker to drop output level. So i'll raise you Dave with two of those, a Weber Mass, power scaling, THD Yellow Jackets and a PPMIV all sitting on top of 3 Grammas.
haha
they're really, really dear, though. If you consider that (certain attenuators, anyway) will work with all your amps, i'm not sure the speakers would be the best way to do it.
I mean... i guess you could use those speakers with all your amps, too. but then you're stuck to one speaker. With an attenuator you can use (certainly with the weber, anyway) pretty much any different speaker you like.
maybe the speakers work better than an attenuator, though :?
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Eminence also do those "flux density modulation" speakers that employ a mechanical change in the speaker to drop output level. So i'll raise you Dave with two of those, a Weber Mass, power scaling, THD Yellow Jackets and a PPMIV all sitting on top of 3 Grammas.
haha
they're really, really dear, though. If you consider that (certain attenuators, anyway) will work with all your amps, i'm not sure the speakers would be the best way to do it.
I mean... i guess you could use those speakers with all your amps, too. but then you're stuck to one speaker. With an attenuator you can use (certainly with the weber, anyway) pretty much any different speaker you like.
maybe the speakers work better than an attenuator, though :?
From what ive heard they do.
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Rather interested to see what results you get from this, I presume the speaker is still moving a far bit of air for the tonez ;)
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I've been using this very same attenuator (the weber) with my HRDx for about two years now, no damage to the amp (but I'm NOT using it to get bedroom volume with the amp cranked up :lol:), works fine for "light" attenuation (-6 to -9db I'd say), eats a bit of the tone and dynamics yes, indeed (repeat after me: there's NO silver bullet), but the result is still way better than trying to get the same volume _without_ it (specially on fenderish circuits). Very valuable tool at catalog price, and definitly a bargain at £80.
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I forgot to say it was £80 posted, so around £75 for the unit itself. I'm looking forward to trying it out tomorrow with the '65 Empire :D
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Rather interested to see what results you get from this, I presume the speaker is still moving a far bit of air for the tonez ;)
Not at TV volumes, no! It's about letting the amp work just enough so it's not strangled.
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From what ive heard they do.
ah :lol:
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I had a Weber Mass 150 (I think) for my Orange.
It was great - but I did blow the Orange up using it. I'm sure it's better with modern amps, but the Orange really didn't like. For the brief time it worked though it sounded awesome!!!
:D
i love the recurring myth of attenuators damaging amps :D
The thing that actually damages it is the fact people run the amps close to or at full pelt with an attenuator.
If you were running the amp full on without it you would still end up with the exact same issues
Wasn't suggesting that the attenuator damaged the amp. My orange is 40 years old, and not used to running at those volumes.
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my Marshall is 43 years old, and nearly blew up my Weber Mass 100!! :) there was smoke billowing out of it! luckily we spotted it straight away and it seems to be fine.
it's a good attenuator, i'm very happy with it, but from that experience i would repeat Weber's advice that your attenuator should be rated at about twice the wattage of the amp. i'll only be using it with 50 watters from now on :)
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my Marshall is 43 years old, and nearly blew up my Weber Mass 100!! :) there was smoke billowing out of it! luckily we spotted it straight away and it seems to be fine.
it's a good attenuator, i'm very happy with it, but from that experience i would repeat Weber's advice that your attenuator should be rated at about twice the wattage of the amp. i'll only be using it with 50 watters from now on :)
you could still use it just at lower MV settings.
Id check on the internal resistors and speaker motor though after billowing smoke. Smoke only happens when something is damaged!
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oh, the lesson was learnt. i was with a tech at the time, he checked it over and luckily it was just some adhesive that had smoked when it got hot. it was a good warning before it actually failed! we were trying out the amp with a Divo OV4 in it, self biasing unit, so we were winding it up to see how it fared. i wouldn't normally have it cranked as high as that. there is no master volume on this baby, hence the attenuator, which is rated at 100 watts, while the amp at full tilt is putting out more like 130. it was careless of us, and we're lucky we just got a bit of smoke to scare us. we won't make that mistake again!
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oh, the lesson was learnt. i was with a tech at the time, he checked it over and luckily it was just some adhesive that had smoked when it got hot. it was a good warning before it actually failed! we were trying out the amp with a Divo OV4 in it, self biasing unit, so we were winding it up to see how it fared. i wouldn't normally have it cranked as high as that. there is no master volume on this baby, hence the attenuator, which is rated at 100 watts, while the amp at full tilt is putting out more like 130. it was careless of us, and we're lucky we just got a bit of smoke to scare us. we won't make that mistake again!
That all makes sense.
I just didnt want you to go on using it without it being checked incase something crucial had gone which could lead to impedance mismatches etc.
Fire & Smoke is always the best reminder that sometimes you need to be cautious. Electric shocks are another....