Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: Philly Q on October 04, 2012, 12:41:18 PM
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I've been playing guitar - after a fashion - for well over 30 years now, but I learned almost everything I know in the first 6 or 7 years. Never got even close to being any good at it, and I've spent the time since then well and truly in a rut (I've dragged myself out, briefly, a couple of times, but soon fell back in again....)
My initial knowledge was gathered from books like Lead Guitar by Harvey Vinson (first published in 1972, I believe) and The Heavy Guitar Bible, then later I dabbled a bit with tuition videos, then DVDs. Many years after that, I made a half-hearted effort to learn a thing or two from Line 6's online resources. And I actually had lessons for a few months. None of them ultimately led me to that breakthrough of being..... competent.
I've often thought of starting again from scratch, trying to forget the pitifully small amount I have learned and going right back to basics. But what's the best way to do it?
Suppose you were starting again, but armed with the knowledge you've acquired over the years. Did you learn stuff that was a complete waste of time? Did you learn useful stuff, but in a hopelessly inefficient manner? Are there tuition aids/methods you found particularly useful (or completely useless)? Is there stuff you know now but wish you'd learned much earlier? Did those 12 hour sessions practicing sweep-picking to a metronome ultimately serve any purpose....?
In short, what do you think's the best way to learn guitar?
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Good topic Philly - one that I have run over in my head a number of times. I've been on/off playing for about 20-25 years now and whilst I can play more consistently and am more conscious of 'feel' than I was I do wonder if I have actually learnt much.
For instance - I know a pentatonic scale and that's about it. I can play a few chords and make a decent enough sound. I even played a few 'surprise' songs at a friends Christmas party - to the casual observer I was 'amazingly good at guitar' but to me I was 'amazingly medicore'.
I'd love to know more about music theory and know how to effectively apply that to guitar (and my abilities). I just don't know where to start. I think the issue for me is around structure - I can get quickly bored and lose discipline. Even when I've tried to put structure around my own learning time it has quickly fallen apart.
To be honest I think the answer for me is to find a teacher who understands where I am and where I want to get to and, more importantly, one that I can get on with. I've had a teacher before and whilst he was a good guitar player he was pretty boring and uninspiring.
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In short, what do you think's the best way to learn guitar?
Join a band.
Seriously, if you can bash a few chords out and hold time the best thing you can do is join a band and learn songs to play with them. Your playing will come on leaps and bounds in no time.
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....and what Dave said. :D
Only problem for me is that I just don't have the time to join a band!
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To be honest I think the answer for me is to find a teacher who understands where I am and where I want to get to and, more importantly, one that I can get on with. I've had a teacher before and whilst he was a good guitar player he was pretty boring and uninspiring.
Join a band.
Seriously, if you can bash a few chords out and hold time the best thing you can do is join a band and learn songs to play with them. Your playing will come on leaps and bounds in no time.
I was kind of anticipating both those answers (especially Dave's, and from Dave!) :lol:
My gut feeling is that the "interacting with humans" methods are probably the best, because you get that two-way feedback. Problem is finding the right people.... and the time, as Ian mentioned.
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You didn't ask for the easist way Phil, you asked for the best ;)
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If only all guitarists were as gregarious and generous as you Dave - my experience of being in bands when I was a teen was that it was the war of all against all. In fact I stopped playing for 12 years due to the horror of the experience.
If I went back in time , I would learn to play in time. With a metronome or a drum machine. I suppose I could do that now, but its been along time since I had the patience...
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Sorry to hear that Elliot - sounds like it was rough :( I agree it can be hard to find good musicians, but if you can join the right group of people you all work together and feed off each other. In my band we've all pushed ourselves to become better at what we do for the greater good. It can be hard work, but when you nail a tricky song there's no other feeling like it :)
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1) Get a good teacher. He doesn't actually need to be the worlds greatest player, just charismatic. A charismatic teacher is an inspiring one. I you find yourself wanting to go back to him every lesson and practise the stuff he tells you to practise then you've found a good teacher. It took me a long time. My first two teachers were horrendous. The 3rd teacher was the one that really got me into guitar. He was the owner of the local music shop and he was very friendly. To make it better, since the lessons were over at the music shop, he let me use any guitar I wanted for the lessons.
But I found that, despite enjoying the lessons, I wasn't progressing technique-wise and I couldn't get the hang of theory at all. He taught me a whole lot about improvising and keeping in time though. That leads me to point number 2.
2) Get a Drum Machine and a Looper - Make your own backing tracks and just jam to them. It works wonders, it's almost as good as being in a band and it's much less hassle. I used to sit down for hours just jamming with myself. It also helps you to learn and memorise scales much faster. I actually think that this is so important that the first pedal you should ever get is a looper.
3) The teacher isn't everything. Practise what the teacher tells you to practise but also do what you want or you'll never enjoy it and you'll end up quitting. If you wanna learn anything... sweeps, pinch harmonics, arpeggios, songs and even just writing your own stuff - do it.
4) Don't give yourself a $%&#ing schedule! - Practise when you want and what you want. If you enjoy it I imagine that you'll practise a lot anyway. A schedule just turns it into work - and it shouldn't be. Also, I've never believed in the "take a break every 15 minutes thing that you find all over the internet. bullshitee. If you get tired and sloppy after 15 minutes how on earth will you survive a gig! :D If you get tired or bored of practising a certain technique just move on to something else. If you take a break you'll most likely end up surfing the internet for the next hour looking at pictures of cats without even realising it.
Obviously, this is just my opinion and it probably isn't the same with most other people.
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The Drum Machine/Looper thing does make sense to me. One of the few "learning tools" I've found useful and enjoyable over the years was jamming over backing tracks..... although I only felt comfortable playing over blues progressions, and I can't be sure I wasn't just trotting out tired old licks rather than learning anything new. :? Definitely good for feel and timing, if nothing else.
The problem with the Looper is I don't think I even have the skills or imagination to record anything loop-able....
(I'm imagining myself as John Martyn now.... but hopefully retaining both legs)
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I started off by teaching myself the very basics, taking a years worth of lessons for advanced techniques and theory (which I am cr@p at) and then just playing in bands and picking up little things off other players here and there.
The only thing I'd change is not going through a shred phase.
Paddy
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itamar101 wrote:
'I used to sit down for hours just jamming with myself'
Am I the only one whose glad that Afghan Dave is not about at the moment?
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I found the best way for me personally development wise was guitar pro.
There are literally thousands of lessons out there not to mention all of the tabbed songs.
And the features such as being able to slow down the entire track or just sections and loop something that speeds up in increments that you set until its at full speed or beyond are just invaluable.
After that its playing with friends/band (these are generally the same for me I know loads of musicians) which I find to be more fine tuning and learning things I that I hadn't even considered that they already know.
I'd be in a band right now if the above said musicians didn't all start having kids :shock:
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itamar101 wrote:
'I used to sit down for hours just jamming with myself'
Am I the only one whose glad that Afghan Dave is not about at the moment?
Why is that?
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I would do exactly the same as I did.. but the change I would do is to try to expand the range of practice material faster.
I learnt guitar from a Black Sabbath tab book. Later I learnt more ways of playing from Diamond Head tabs. This was my base for years, that and lots of "jamming around with myself".
Later I learnt songs from other bands, and the way those guitarists worked the instrument was different and taught me new things.. Judas Priest and Deep Purple taught me a lot. I should have done that quicker!! I'd got in a bit of a rut for a bit.
Finally now I am learning all the cowboy chords and stuff, which I know most people learn first, but its not that fun is it? ;)
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The one thing that has really helped me recently, that I wish I always had is slowing down software (like The Amazing Slower Downer). Being able to play along with a song at 75% speed or hearing difficult passages played really slowly has helped my playing no end.
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I learnt guitar from a Black Sabbath tab book. Later I learnt more ways of playing from Diamond Head tabs. This was my base for years, that and lots of "jamming around with myself".
That's a pretty narrow range of tuition material! :P
But again, I can see sense in that approach. Ground yourself in something you really enjoy and feel totally comfortable with, then branch out from there.
I've often thought: we've only ever really heard Tony Iommi play Sabbath songs, or Angus Young play AC/DC.... we love 'em, and think of them as great players, but what if that's all they really can play, their own songs and nothing else? They'd actually be pretty limited.*
Then again, having your own recognisable style is having a set of limitations, intentional or otherwise.....
(* I'm not suggesting for a moment that is actually the case - undoubtedly Iommi could impress us with his jazz chops, and I bet Angus can play some mean blues. It's just the idea which interested me.)
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Learning of a lot of covers helps a lot. Watch guitarplayers, learn their tricks. Join a band. On stage you learn a lot too.
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i'd say do whatever makes you enjoy it and whatever works for you. everyone is different, and enjoying it is half the battle.
don't listen to (no-one here is saying this) the people who act like you're awful if you're not practising for 8 hours a day, or that "playing stuff you know isn't practising". Playing is better than not playing, and if you only practise exercises that's a pretty quick route to sounding unmusical, imo. You're playing for you, not these other people, and if you want to play for 10 minutes a week, that's absolutely fair enough.
also, "talent borrows, genius steals". if you hear something good, shamelessly nick it. :lol: If you nick from enough players, you'll start to have your own style. :lol:
I've often thought: we've only ever really heard Tony Iommi play Sabbath songs, or Angus Young play AC/DC.... we love 'em, and think of them as great players, but what if that's all they really can play, their own songs and nothing else? They'd actually be pretty limited.*
that's a good point. I listen to killer players and get demoralised, "Oh i wish i could do legato like satriani, sweep like malmsteen or tap like vai", but (maybe) vai can't do legato like satriani and malmsteen can't tap like vai. (of course, they probably can, but it's still worth bearing in mind.)
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I'd echo what others have said- find a teacher that you can get on with and one who can motivate you to want to play more and then play with other people and learn doing that.
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I would honestly do what I did the 1st time around.
I think it's important for everyone to have their own style and technique, and I feel like the only way to do that 100% is to learn by yourself. Playing a track over and over and trying to learn it by ear note for note not only helped me develop a good ear, but I learned to play things the way I felt comfortable doing.
I did take lessons for a few months just to get the basics down, and learn some scales, and then I was off on my own. I liked that way of doing it, and I'd do it again if I had to.
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I agree about learning things by ear - I think once a person develops that ability the guitar opens up. However, I think the true indicator that I will never be any good is that I cannot learn anything by ear - not even after 20 years and not even after spending a year doing exercises with 'ear training' software. Not even twinkle twinkle little star :(
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I'd say get some lessons, try and find someone who will start to help you figure stuff out by ear as Elliot mentions, it seemed to help a lot :)
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There's a wealth of learning aids available for guitarists these days (tab, DVDs, excellent magazines, slow down, guitar pro etc, etc). If I was starting learning now I'm sure I would use as many of these as I could. In many ways I'm glad that most of these were not readilly available when I first started out and had to learn by ear. To me learning by ear back then first involved playing the song/solo repeatedly to get the feel before even attempting to work it out. (how many pub covers bands have you heard play Free's "Alright now" with the right notes but the wrong feel?).
As mentioned above playing with other musicians is a great way to improve your playing (which unfortunately I don't these days :() - and perhaps try a few styles/music you are not comfortable with.
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I learnt guitar from a Black Sabbath tab book. Later I learnt more ways of playing from Diamond Head tabs. This was my base for years, that and lots of "jamming around with myself".
That's a pretty narrow range of tuition material! :P
But again, I can see sense in that approach. Ground yourself in something you really enjoy and feel totally comfortable with, then branch out from there.
I've often thought: we've only ever really heard Tony Iommi play Sabbath songs, or Angus Young play AC/DC.... we love 'em, and think of them as great players, but what if that's all they really can play, their own songs and nothing else? They'd actually be pretty limited.*
Then again, having your own recognisable style is having a set of limitations, intentional or otherwise.....
(* I'm not suggesting for a moment that is actually the case - undoubtedly Iommi could impress us with his jazz chops, and I bet Angus can play some mean blues. It's just the idea which interested me.)
Really nteresting point. I think the players mentioned, although could actualy /play/ a wide range of material, went back to familiar ground when composing their own stuff. As we know priest/sabbath/purple have a quite different view of the power chord and its many variations.
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I agree about learning things by ear - I think once a person develops that ability the guitar opens up. However, I think the true indicator that I will never be any good is that I cannot learn anything by ear - not even after 20 years and not even after spending a year doing exercises with 'ear training' software. Not even twinkle twinkle little star :(
Are you talking about chord progressions and full arrangements, or even basic melodies? I can easily pick out single-note melodies by ear (not necessarily in the right key....), but that's the end of my "talents". I couldn't identify a chord to save my life.
And I can't imagine EVER being able to construct a track in the sense of fitting together a drum track, bass line, chord progression, melody over the top..... I simply have no idea what works with what, I wouldn't know where to begin.
(By the same token, I'm always amazed when I watch a football match and some people can "see" the formation and identify the weak spots.... to me they just seem to be running around randomly.... :?)
I have a feeling that these are things which probably CAN be learned by methodically deconstructing other people's songs, learning the separate parts, then doing the same with other songs and starting to see the similarities. But on the other hand it's a process which seems to come completely naturally to some people..... and that utterly bewilders and astounds me. :(
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For me the best way of learning was playing along to artists and songs that I loved, this will not only keep you interested but its also very enjoyable
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I agree Phil - Listening to some of the stuff that Tom or AndyR does (especially on something 'limited' like his Boss MicroBR) is beyond the pail of comprehension to me. I am sure you can learn it if you have a patient teacher - but it is just an order of playing different from mine. :o
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What can't you play that you wish you could? - just work on those areas. I don't think there is one correct answer, just whatever works for you. For me, if I'm in a rut, I'll learn some songs I've always liked but never transcribed - you always pick something up from that which becomes part of your box of tricks.
This is gonna be an unpopular one, but I've also found that time away can reignite your passion for guitar. I'm talking maybe a few weeks, not years mind. I think maybe 6 weeks is the longest I've gone in 20+ years.
I've never found that pouring over theory did me any good, I'm a meat and potatoes player - it's all from jamming and playing to records, noodling in the house and gigging since I was 15.
I'm also a firm believer of going back to the roots - learn where the stuff came from, get your blues and country licks down, your classic rock, punk - its all got it's own thing you can take away from it (except Jazz, I'm not having that :lol:)
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I agree Phil - Listening to some of the stuff that Tom or AndyR does (especially on something 'limited' like his Boss MicroBR) is beyond the pail of comprehension to me. I am sure you can learn it if you have a patient teacher - but it is just an order of playing different from mine. :o
It's like a whole other world, isn't it? :lol:
I've discussed it with AndyR a couple of times. I know he's worked bloody hard at his music over many years (which I most definitely haven't!) and of course there's an element of practice makes perfect, but I'm quite sure it does - to at least some degree - come naturally to him, in a way that I simply can't comprehend.
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What can't you play that you wish you could?
Everything! :lol:
Seriously, the only things I can play well are things I've figured out by ear (or made up myself).
Whenever I try to learn things from tab books, videos etc I'm not learning in a way which feels natural to me - the fingerings are awkward, don't always seem to fit with my limited understanding of theory (I do have a need to understand what I'm doing!).... and everything comes out sounding/feeling very stilted.
I'd really just like to be able to play songs! I don't give a shite about shredding, sweep-picking, arpeggios or any of that nonsense, I'm too old for that, I can bluff my way through a pentatonic solo if I know what key I'm in. But as I've said, I can't pick out chords or chord progressions by ear.... so figuring out songs - properly - is just about impossible (or feels like it, anyway)
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I've more or less gone back to square one twice, once for classical and then again for this gypsy malarkey, each time I went right back to learning how to play an open string and make it sound good (which took a surprising amount of time) and I think it really paid off so it's something I'd seriously reccommend.
Never had much luck with tab books myself, now the transcriptions in Guitar techniques magazine are another story, everything is logical and explained and done with common sense rather than a desire for pin point album version accuracy (which is something that even the original artists can't be arsed doing live for a lot of songs)
Can you tell the difference between a straight major chord and a minor chord...what about a Dominant 7th? thats more than half the battle right there.
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What can't you play that you wish you could?
Everything! :lol:
Seriously, the only things I can play well are things I've figured out by ear (or made up myself).
Whenever I try to learn things from tab books, videos etc I'm not learning in a way which feels natural to me - the fingerings are awkward, don't always seem to fit with my limited understanding of theory (I do have a need to understand what I'm doing!).... and everything comes out sounding/feeling very stilted.
I'd really just like to be able to play songs! I don't give a shitee about shredding, sweep-picking, arpeggios or any of that nonsense, I'm too old for that, I can bluff my way through a pentatonic solo if I know what key I'm in. But as I've said, I can't pick out chords or chord progressions by ear.... so figuring out songs - properly - is just about impossible (or feels like it, anyway)
If you need to understand what you're doing I would suggest getting some lessons with focus on theory (the stuff you want to learn). I like to jam along to different songs, and it makes my playing more stable, but it doesn't really expand my skills and knowledge of music. For that I think I'll need a teacher or doing some theory work on my own which propably would leed to nothing :?
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Never had much luck with tab books myself, now the transcriptions in Guitar techniques magazine are another story, everything is logical and explained and done with common sense rather than a desire for pin point album version accuracy (which is something that even the original artists can't be arsed doing live for a lot of songs)
I've never bought GT (although I do buy 4 other guitar mags every month :roll: ). Maybe I should check it out...
Can you tell the difference between a straight major chord and a minor chord...what about a Dominant 7th? thats more than half the battle right there.
Major and minor.... yes, I think so (I know it's the third which makes the difference). Dominant 7th? That sounds like jazz. :?
If you need to understand what you're doing I would suggest getting some lessons with focus on theory (the stuff you want to learn). I like to jam along to different songs, and it makes my playing more stable, but it doesn't really expand my skills and knowledge of music. For that I think I'll need a teacher or doing some theory work on my own which propably would leed to nothing :?
When I say I need to understand, I'm not comfortable with "this lick, at this fret, works over this chord, but I don't know why".... it just makes me feel uncomfortable. It's the way my mind works, I'm quite mathematical so I need to follow the basic principles. :lol: I need to at least know the key, how the chords relate to that key.... but I don't want to get into anything really complicated.
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I've come in rather late on this one Philly, and reading through the many informative answers,
I will probably just be re-iterating many existing points, but here goes - as it certainly worked for me when
A) I did used to gig in a covers band - and B) When I 'started over' with the chord melody stuff :
Set yourself a virtual repertoire / gig list - as if any of the people on here had asked you to fill in on a gig, in 3-6 months time - and just sent a list . As it is your 'Virtual gig ' at this stage, use approachable - but currently challenging personal favourites.
1)
Initially, Assume your required 'duties' will be Rhythm guitar and 'fills' - and then set out to meticulously go one song at a time , pausing and going close focus on alternative chord fingerings if doing so does not collide with the general 'sound ' of the piece.
2) Learn any 'new' chording and or riffs/ fills that song alone needs you to know. That is to say, do not go at chord work, riff learning and such in a generalised way. Only download / read/ experiment with a new concept if it is the very next thing you need for that one song.
3) Ditto for next song. Start every practice session by working on the new material , and finish with a revision of the previous pieces, NOT the other way round. Apparently the brain 'etches' / re-enforces new paths better that way round.
4) As the song list grows, you will have added / researched / understood a great deal more than you thought you could at the outset ; and it will all have context and relevance , and be easier to remember - than if you just learned 'The big book of riffs' e.t.c.
5) At the end of your set list, you then imagine that you get an e:mail . telling you that you may also have to fill in, if the solo player breaks a string, or double up for sonic effect. This takes the weight off you getting it all note perfect in your mind, and instead gives you the fun task of simply getting better at whatever you can do by the time of the 'virtual' gig.
6) For learning the lead work / scale usage ( relevant to the underlying chord ) think only of the one phrase, riff, technique that the player is doing RIGHT NOW - not how hard the whole of the solo(s) might be to learn.
Over time, this will have naturally presented so many examples of ' apt scale over given chord' in a memorable and practical way - that you will not have to rely upon a general knowledge , but can instead, hear in your head how it actually worked.
Again, ( providing it is relevant to this part in this song ) - by all means find the same phrase somewhere else on the neck, or think of what you could ad-lib, if you had to play solo over that specific part of the chordal progression, without repeating the 'first' soloist . For example , Think of the second solo in Thin Lizzy's "Still In Love With You" - or Snowy White ( Pink Floyd 'The Wall' era ) - having to play a tasteful / relevant version of the solo from " Another Brick In The Wall - Part Two" live on stage - only a few seconds after Dave Gilmour had just played the official / recorded version .
So :
Set a target / structure of real songs
Impose a good natured time limit ( in months)
Focus only on the immediate song
Research / download / blag / practice / understand only what is needed for the immediate bar / phrase.
Rinse and repeat, but revise the existing material - at the end of each session of having learned new material ; even if that 'New material' is only a five note run - or new chord.
I hope that made at least some sense Philly - as it would be great to hear of you actually getting a chance to do the above for real, as a Guest player in the Band of one of the other forumites ! :)
Completely starting over , was the very best thing I ever did - and even now , I have recently decided to revise my previous Rock / Blues 'stuff' - as an adjunct to the main Chord melody project - as I realised that if anyone asked me to 'fill in' like the old days, I was losing the ability to do so .
Enjoy ! :D
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Out of interest does anybody ever bother with the 'In the Style of . . . . (Hendrix, Clapton, etc)' type lessons in GT and other magazines? Every time I listen to them the seem to be by Guthrie Govan, and they sound like, well, Guthrie Govan (which is probably not a bad thing) and not the guitarist whose 'style' is being emulated. Also, when they do guitar players I actually know how to play 'in the style of' (say Son House) the licks are never anything like what that player would actually play. I much prefer learning whole songs from TAB, but that can take a long time - I am still learning Hideaway after about three years - at the last 6 bars now :?
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Set a target / structure of real songs
Impose a good natured time limit ( in months)
Focus only on the immediate song
Research / download / blag / practice / understand only what is needed for the immediate bar / phrase.
Rinse and repeat, but revise the existing material - at the end of each session of having learned new material ; even if that 'New material' is only a five note run - or new chord.
I hope that made at least some sense Philly - as it would be great to hear of you actually getting a chance to do the above for real, as a Guest player in the Band of one of the other forumites ! :)
Thanks for the long and (as always) thought-provoking post, Derek. :)
I like the idea of concentrating on specific songs, and the elements which make up those songs, as opposed to thinking "there are so many things I don't know/can't do..." The time limit is also a good idea - at work, if things have to be done, I get them done.... and perhaps I should be applying a similar philosophy to guitar playing, albeit not in a high-pressure kind of way.
Food for thought.
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Out of interest does anybody ever bother with the 'In the Style of . . . . (Hendrix, Clapton, etc)' type lessons in GT and other magazines? Every time I listen to them the seem to be by Guthrie Govan, and they sound like, well, Guthrie Govan (which is probably not a bad thing) and not the guitarist whose 'style' is being emulated. Also, when they do guitar players I actually know how to play 'in the style of' (say Son House) the licks are never anything like what that player would actually play. I much prefer learning whole songs from TAB, but that can take a long time - I am still learning Hideaway after about three years - at the last 6 bars now :?
i rarely ever buy GT, but there's a clip on youtube for GG playing in the style of a bunch of other players, and i thought it was pretty darn good.
i'd say a lot of the other players don't always sound that close to the "in the style of", but, judging by that clip at least, GG is awesome at it (he's awesome at most things, to be fair, as you suggested :lol: ).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXk2ZrgcQM this is the one, i think.
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i rarely ever buy GT, but there's a clip on youtube for GG playing in the style of a bunch of other players, and i thought it was pretty darn good.
i'd say a lot of the other players don't always sound that close to the "in the style of", but, judging by that clip at least, GG is awesome at it (he's awesome at most things, to be fair, as you suggested :lol: ).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXk2ZrgcQM this is the one, i think.
That was pretty amazing (and in a way depressing, but let's not worry about that. :wink: )
Funnily enough, the ones I found least convincing were the last few - Beck, Scofield and Hendrix. Maybe he was getting tired at the end. :lol:
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This is a very good question. Asked it myself often.
There is a few things that feel like they really help(ed) me.
1. Guitar Pro. Being able to take a song apart, look exactly what is played...wow.
2. Jamming. Just improvising (preferably solo melodies) is a great, gave me so much understanding of it all (melody rythm, etc.). Love backing tracks, but also for example the first Keane album to jam along to. I am now starting to try and play the notes the lead singer sings, as I know the songs very well.
3. Playing by ear. Think of a melody piece you like and figure out how to play it until it sounds right. The chorus of a good pop song is always good for this.
4. When you hear something you like, look at what it is and (try to) play it. Saw this little Steve Howe like hybrid picking lick on GT recently and loved the sound. Learned to play it bit by bit and how I start to incorporate hybrid picking in my playing.
5. This video: http://youtu.be/atGBKuCJ-Jc (http://youtu.be/atGBKuCJ-Jc) This is incredibly motivating and the most expiring thing I have heard about the guitar (even if you donīt love Vai it should still do the trick). When I wander astray I just watch this again...and I get back on.
I think what he talks about might work for you too Philly.
I personally see myself as a lazy guitarist, although I get better slowly (not fast enough to justify my gear though...nowhere near it). Problem is that I am somewhat of an ADD guitarist sometimes. I try to do metal , bluesy stuff, pop stuff, alternative folk, folk,...
Either I will never get good at anything or Iīll reach singularity one day and become a good prog player xD
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Kiichi
the Steve Vai motivational session is exceptional, very clear and focussed. Thank you for sharing
David
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Kiichi
the Steve Vai motivational session is exceptional, very clear and focussed. Thank you for sharing
David
Glad to hear that you like it as much as I do!
I always feel like more people need to see this, as it is not only applicable to guitar, but to everything really.
Just incredible stuff.
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5. This video: http://youtu.be/atGBKuCJ-Jc (http://youtu.be/atGBKuCJ-Jc) This is incredibly motivating and the most expiring thing I have heard about the guitar (even if you donīt love Vai it should still do the trick). When I wander astray I just watch this again...and I get back on.
I think what he talks about might work for you too Philly.
Sounded interesting, but it keeps freezing after 2 minutes. :x
I don't think my computer has enough memory to cope with all the extra video/advertising material on most websites nowadays, it's always struggling. I need to replace it.
Sorry, that was off-topic. I know I'm always off-topic, but I don't want to derail this discussion.
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get private tuition!
yes it costs money, is it worth it? hell yes, I learned more from private tuition than I could ever teach myself, I improved 10x in just one year and came out of it being able to play things that I though was literally impossible for me to ever achieve. Obviously you need a good teacher though but if you can find one it is worth it's weight in gold and will stick with you for the rest of your life.
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Major and minor.... yes, I think so (I know it's the third which makes the difference). Dominant 7th? That sounds like jazz. :?
They show up everywhere (a lot of major blues has nothing else), you'll know it when you hear it, (X7675XX) - E7.
I really wish I'd started doing ear training earlier, being able to hear the theory behind something is so much quicker and easier than analysing things note by note and you'll never be able to play anything well with your fingers that you can't play in your head.
I'll also echo what others have said about metronomes, If you don't have time you don't have anything.
Also, the major scale, I'd learn it. I'd learn it on one string,I'd learn it across all strings, I'd learn it in one octave and I'd learn it in all octaves.I'd learn it all over the neck.I'd learn it in thirds.I'd learn it in thirds and 7ths,I'd learn it's intervals, I'd learn it beginning and ending on each note therein, I'd learn what it sounds like over all of it's diatonic chords,I'd learn all it's diatonic chords and how to derive them and I'd do this in all keys...if I had as much time as I want on guitar... :cry: :violin2:
Btw nice thread, it's good to read peoples approaches to technique and musicianship, especially in a forum where everything doesent have to be a pissing contest.
Edit: And the boring tech exercises with a metronome really pay dividends, even with 15 mins a day, if you stick on one topic like bending accuracy, vibrato or finger Independence.
and I'll end my ramble with the most important thing of all. Relaxation. if you learn something with minimum tension it's just plain easier to play.
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That was pretty amazing (and in a way depressing, but let's not worry about that. :wink: )
Funnily enough, the ones I found least convincing were the last few - Beck, Scofield and Hendrix. Maybe he was getting tired at the end. :lol:
yeah- i don't really know scofield that well, i was talking about the guys i was more familiar with :lol: I thought beck wasn't too bad (but i'm not that well up on his playing either).
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Oh one thing I forgot: Record yourself and listen to it.
That way you can hear where you actually are and notice your mistakes much more. And if you play something well and listen to it you are like "yeaaaaahhh" and totally motivated.
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get private tuition!
yes it costs money, is it worth it? hell yes, I learned more from private tuition than I could ever teach myself, I improved 10x in just one year and came out of it being able to play things that I though was literally impossible for me to ever achieve. Obviously you need a good teacher though but if you can find one it is worth it's weight in gold and will stick with you for the rest of your life.
I think you're probably right, ultimately. Lessons are probably the best way to learn. I learned quite a lot from lessons with Alan Limbrick at the Guitar Institute years ago, although I can't say I enjoyed it much.
But (here I go making excuses again....)
It would be extremely important for me to find someone I could get on with, shared (some of) my musical taste, etc etc..... I spent ages once going through the Registry of Guitar Tutors website, and everybody seemed to be miles away, or 20 years younger than me (which, no offence to young people, would make me uncomfortable), or just looked intimidating.
And... I don't want to be traipsing around London with a guitar at funny times of day, in unfamiliar and possibly dodgy areas. It's supposed to be an enjoyable experience. :?
On top of all that, my time is limited, I'd have trouble following a regular schedule and being ready for the next lesson.
Maybe one day....
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get private tuition!
yes it costs money, is it worth it? hell yes, I learned more from private tuition than I could ever teach myself, I improved 10x in just one year and came out of it being able to play things that I though was literally impossible for me to ever achieve. Obviously you need a good teacher though but if you can find one it is worth it's weight in gold and will stick with you for the rest of your life.
This is what I was going to suggest, but also state that I'm doubting Philly is as bad as he makes out PDT_002
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You guys are so nice.... but I really am as bad as I make out. :lol:
If I'm being totally honest with myself, I suspect I'm at a stage (and have been for a long time) where only a little hard work could lead to a significant improvement. But until I get over that hurdle.... I really am that bad. :|
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i think you make a good point regarding the lessons- if you aren't careful, they can turn it into work, rather than play/fun.
I've never had guitar lessons- though I wouldn't suggest having no lessons if you've never had any instruction in anything musical (I've had piano and drum lessons, so at least I have a fair idea if i'm on the right track or not)- and I practise guitar way more than I ever practised piano or drums. to be fair- I probably like guitar more. But even still, there is something to be said for that.
That being said, I still don't practise enough. And I probably would have picked some things up a bit quicker had I had lessons.
But it's definitely very important getting someone who teaches you the things you want and in the way you want to learn (within reason). Some teachers (and i say this as someone who is incredibly biased in favour of teachers, if anything- both my parents were (not music) teachers) are very, very annoying. They have a very particular way of learning and teaching, and if you're not willing to learn in that way, they'll go out of their way to prove your way wrong and make it difficult for you. Even though there are umpteen ways to learn things. A similar, related problem is the type of teacher who forces you to learn boring scales and the like, on the principle of "weeding out" those who aren't interested. That's BS of the highest order, if you ask me. If you make something artificially boring, you're going to weed out good students.
Of course, if you get a good teacher, it'll help your playing like nothing else. Just in case it looks like i'm warning you against getting lessons, because I'm really not.
I'm also sure you're nowhere near as bad as you say you are. :)
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- I forgot to say, ( having re- read your replies ) - that in addition to setting yourself a target date for completion of certain objectives / skills acquired ; You will definately need to set yourself a start date . :wink:
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- I forgot to say, ( having re- read your replies ) - that in addition to setting yourself a target date for completion of certain objectives / skills acquired ; You will definately need to set yourself a start date . :wink:
Comment of the day! :lol:
I'll try to find a gap in my diary for that start date....
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- I forgot to say, ( having re- read your replies ) - that in addition to setting yourself a target date for completion of certain objectives / skills acquired ; You will definately need to set yourself a start date . :wink:
Comment of the day! :lol:
I'll try to find a gap in my diary for that start date....
Will that be before or after the day you start putting together the parts under your bed?
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:lol:
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- I forgot to say, ( having re- read your replies ) - that in addition to setting yourself a target date for completion of certain objectives / skills acquired ; You will definately need to set yourself a start date . :wink:
Comment of the day! :lol:
I'll try to find a gap in my diary for that start date....
Will that be before or after the day you start putting together the parts under your bed?
Hmmmm.... I've got a coin here..... heads or tails?
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Heads for the learning and tails for the building seems fitting to me.
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A New Year's resolution perhaps ? So far, January 3rd - March 28th ( inclusive ) 2014 , is looking pretty clear ; although I'd hate to hurry you on this one.
Please don't tell me that the Diary ( a free ' valued customer' gift from Warmouth ) - is also under the bed. :(
* P.S. *
The Album title 2112 was a concept, not a viable start date .
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I don't do New Year Resolutions.... I know I'll never keep 'em. :|
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Make a new years resolution Not to set a start date.
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Philly Q - if you can ever make it down to Brighton for a day come and see me. I'm not a great teacher but I'd love to see if I can give you some help because I think you're underestimating yourself. You probably know more than you think but don't know what to call it - a common problem and easily overcome.
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Thanks for the kind offer Richard. I think part of my problem is that I know a lot more in my head than I do in my fingers...