Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: trysth on October 16, 2014, 02:00:38 PM
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Hey guys! I bought my Schecter ATX Solo Ltd a year ago and since then I wanted to change the bridge pickup but I'm not sure with what.
What I have: Schecter ATX Solo Ltd (the first model, not the Solo II from 2014) with mahogany body and neck, ebony fingerboard. Now I'm using the stock Seymour Duncan Blackouts, which are not bad at all but are stupid hot and sound very sterile and cold.
Amp and cab: Garland Custom Amplification (made in Bulgaria), which is basically a Soldano SLO 100 clone through Bogner Ubercab 4x12.
Style: post-metal / doom
Why change: I don't like the insane hotness of the Blackouts, I mean I play extreme metal, but f*ck me, this is ridiculous. At the moment I'm playing with the gain knob at 9:00 which is the thin line between a rock sound and a complete wall of noise without any definition. So I want that headroom and the possibility of experimenting with boosters, different gain positions, etc. Now using a booster is impossible.
I also don't like the lack of dynamics which is standard for an active pickup.
What I want: massively sounding pickup with big bottom end, aggressive, abrasive and growling mids, don't care much about the highs as long as they're good for nice palm mutes and not too ice-picky. Also I want a ceramic pickup due to various reasons (tight bottom end, aggressive mids being some of them).
What I know: I have a ceramic Miracle Man in my mahogany Edwards Explorer and love the bottom end and the aggressive mids. The only thing I don't like are the ice-picky highs and maybe the excess low end at times (due to the all mahogany body I guess). Also the definition even at extreme high gain levels is godlike.
What I think I want: I wanted desperately to try the C-Pig but I think the bottom end may be too much for the LP body. For now I set my eyes on a C-Bomb but I want your opinion.
That was a lot of info for a bridge, damn it! For a neck pickup I just want something in the ballpark of a SD Jazz or similar - clear, not hot, fat and creamy.
Please give opinions and ideas, thanks!
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What does your guitar sound like when playing it unplugged? Is it dark with lots of low end or does it have more midrange? What are the highs like? Ebony fretboards can add brightness in the highs.
I have included an MP3 that I have posted all over this site. When I was choosing pickups for my guitars, I recorded them unplugged with a condenser mic just to get a good idea of what sort of a tone they contribute. This helped me select pickups that mitigated the weaknesses in the sound while highlighting the strengths at the same time. In the recording, I put a Rebel Yell B and a VHII Neck in the first guitar. The second has an A-Bomb bridge and a Rebel Yell neck. The third has a Juggerset. The last is a piece of cr@p. That is all.
I have an A-Bomb which is tight, growly and abrasive in the mids, and has warm but present highs. I hear the C-Bomb is wider with more cut in the highs, tighter and bigger lows, with a more scooped midrange.
Also, I hear the painkiller is great for metal but you're looking at more mids and upper mids. I haven't personally tried one but it is worth thinking about.
The A-Pig or C-Pig 'possibly' would have too much low end. Perhaps an Aftermath set is more what you are going for? Any of these brighter voiced pickups are great if your guitar is very dark with a weight in the lows and low mids. So, a similar tone to the first guitar in my unplugged clip.
If the guitar doesn't have huge lows, you may like a Juggerset. This is a phatter sounding pickup with powerful low mids, tight lows, and very smooth and warm top end. Chugging with these suckers is an event. Tonnes of thump. If the instrument is brighter, similar to the third guitar in my clip, you'll be fine with a C-Pig or an A-Pig.
**edit** I just noticed that the Solo 6 is a LP style guitar which means it will most likely sound similar to the second guitar in my little recording there. Recommendations:
1) C-bomb for sure! It's a Les Paul style guitar, it most likely will not have overbearing highs.
2) Painkiller.
3) Aftermath.
BKP in general are very articulate with exceptional clarity and string separation. You can't go wrong.
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I'm tempted to say try the MM in your LP style guitar and get something different for the Explorer. Painkillers would be perfect for an Explorer - a Rebel Yell too but they might not be your style - and it would open the sound up. I had Warpigs in my Explorer and it was extremely bass heavy
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Rebel Yell sounds sick boosted but it's also a really consonate / pure sort of a growl. The C-Bomb will have that hairy, grimy, and uncouth sound. I bet a Painkiller would be pretty fun too!
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Juggernauts?
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The Juggernaut is very hot as well. I feel it is hotter than the Miracle Man.
I think the Nailbomb would be a good fit.
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One can always raise or lower the pickup to adjust output somewhat. I think NOTHING that BKP offers would be as hot or muddy as the Blackouts.
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Thanks for the comments, guys!
@Yellowjacket - you got that right about the blackouts :) Thanks for the earlier advice. I'll try to record some unplugged sounds of the Schecter and figure it out. The C-pig was my first choice, but as I said in my first post I'm afraid the low end may be too much for the LP body (as Agent Orange confirmed it for his explorer). I forgot to mention that I tune to standard B and use DR DDT 13-65 strings. I love all the other tonal characteristics of the C-pig but the excessive bottom is a deal breaker. If someone uses it in a LP style guitar, please share some wisdom with us.
I'm not too much into Jugs because they are good for djent and chugging in general, but somehow lack some very important mids and for me always tend to sound hollow in the middle. They're not bad, just not my thing. The Aftermath is also too modern and djent-y for my taste.
Maybe I should try the MM but when I decide to change pickups I should have a clear idea about the new ones, because it will be an overall change of electronics, pots, etc (transitioning from active to passive). So I can't just try it and get it out if I don't like it.
I want someone to tell me that the C-pig will be to boomy (as I'm 99% sure), because it's the winner for now. Next in line is the C-bomb.
Seriously, not one guy has a C-pig in a LP style guitar?
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If the LP is a lighter, chambered type it's probably okay. If it is a heavy unchambered one I'd say no
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It's heavy, but not sure if it's chambered or not.
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Is it at least as heavy as your Explorer? If so then it is most likely unchambered.
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YOU USE 13 - 65s!!!?????? And you wonder why you get a boomy mess!!???? LOL! :grin:
I tried 11 - 56s / Drop B on my mahogany guitar equipped with a Rebel Yell and they sounded huge, thick, and beefy. A lot more output. I think the bigger strings agitate the magnetic field around a pickup even more which can increase output and overall beefiness.
Hmm. I'm inclined to say Painkiller but I have a feeling that Painkiller, C-Bomb, or Rebel Yell will all be in the ballpark of what you want. With that string guage, you'll need all the clarity you can get!!!
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^ I admit that the thick strings contribute to the bottom end, but it's far more than this. It's more due to the all mahogany body+neck and the voicing of the pickup.
@ Agent Orange - the Schecter body is much much heavier than the explorer body, which is a bit light for mahogany.
I think the C-bomb would be the most reasonable choice for now. How about neck pickup, something similar to SD Jazz for example?
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painkillers?
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^ I admit that the thick strings contribute to the bottom end, but it's far more than this. It's more due to the all mahogany body+neck and the voicing of the pickup.
@ Agent Orange - the Schecter body is much much heavier than the explorer body, which is a bit light for mahogany.
I think the C-bomb would be the most reasonable choice for now. How about neck pickup, something similar to SD Jazz for example?
My all mahogany guitar sounded really huge / phat with the 11 - 56 strings on it and this was with the very tight / bright Rebel Yell in the bridge pickup. I think the C-Bomb will be awesome for your needs and I'm a bit unsure of what to recommend for a neck. I find with Les Paul style guitars, the neck pickup always turns into this ball of mud thing. Black Dog neck? I hear it's a fairly bright and tight neck pickup which would be helpful. Totally unsure though.
I'm not too much into Jugs because they are good for djent and chugging in general, but somehow lack some very important mids and for me always tend to sound hollow in the middle.
The Juggs are good for everything in general (cleans, leads, rhythm, and they can do low gain) but I really like how you describe them. They have plenty of mids but the 'modern voice' I always talk about is that 'hollow' or 'scooped' sort of a tone. The overall voicing of the pickup is simply something you can't really dial out so if it's a deal breaker, stay far away. The feel of the Juggs is just so on that they are positively addicting to play. I'm almost always on my super strat since I finished the upgrade.
painkillers?
I keep wondering about this. My Mahogany axe was so thick and huge sounding with Rebel Yell Bridge / 11 - 56. Half the problem with the blackouts is the HUGE strings along with the super hot pickups. It's really hard to know how the amp and pickup will react to the bass guitar strings he's got on his axe!!
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^Thanks again for the details!
I agree that the Juggs are good for everything in general and maybe that's the problem. Also I love the tonality of ceramic magnets and do not care for the alnico ones (and the Juggs have both type of magnets).
The local retailer told me that the Painkillers tend to sound djenty, but I'm not totally sure myself.
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The local retailer told me that the Painkillers tend to sound djenty, but I'm not totally sure myself.
They do djent well, but do not forget that they are inspired by the Judas Priest sound. They do a range of metal well, as long as agression is what you want.
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^Thanks again for the details!
I agree that the Juggs are good for everything in general and maybe that's the problem. Also I love the tonality of ceramic magnets and do not care for the alnico ones (and the Juggs have both type of magnets).
Like I said, the overall voice (timbre) of the pickups will either appeal to you or they won't.
The local retailer told me that the Painkillers tend to sound djenty, but I'm not totally sure myself.
Oh Djent... I think guitarist really ignore how much the PLAYER contributes to tone. It's actually more dramatic than anyone can realize. I was testing some gear for a friend of mine who is starting up an amp company. With the same guitar, amp, and amp settings the tone I got was surprisingly different from the tone he got. We're both competent players so it was really a case of how we approach the instrument.
I think that 'Djent' is more about amp settings and an approach to playing. Of course, a massively detuned guitar runs the risk of falling in this ballpark.
Considering that you want really gnarly mids, the C-Bomb probably is a great starting point for you. It's really pissed off, hairy, and generally gnarly and it sounds like that's what you are looking for.
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Yep, I think that's the best choice.
Can you tell about the top end of the C-bomb? Can you compare it to the MM?
PS Found this old thread, some may find it useful:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=25658.msg336556#msg336556
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Painkiller video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68EFY0I-SxE
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Thanks for the comments, guys!
@Yellowjacket - you got that right about the blackouts :) Thanks for the earlier advice. I'll try to record some unplugged sounds of the Schecter and figure it out. The C-pig was my first choice, but as I said in my first post I'm afraid the low end may be too much for the LP body (as Agent Orange confirmed it for his explorer). I forgot to mention that I tune to standard B and use DR DDT 13-65 strings. I love all the other tonal characteristics of the C-pig but the excessive bottom is a deal breaker. If someone uses it in a LP style guitar, please share some wisdom with us.
I'm not too much into Jugs because they are good for djent and chugging in general, but somehow lack some very important mids and for me always tend to sound hollow in the middle. They're not bad, just not my thing. The Aftermath is also too modern and djent-y for my taste.
Maybe I should try the MM but when I decide to change pickups I should have a clear idea about the new ones, because it will be an overall change of electronics, pots, etc (transitioning from active to passive). So I can't just try it and get it out if I don't like it.
I want someone to tell me that the C-pig will be to boomy (as I'm 99% sure), because it's the winner for now. Next in line is the C-bomb.
Seriously, not one guy has a C-pig in a LP style guitar?
Most will agree I always back up the Warpigs and black hawks the most. GO FOR IT! The Ceramic pig will sounds really good in your LP. The alnico may be too much bottom and low-mids. I have an Alnico in my superstrat and its KILLER. I have tried the C-pig in a les paul that was all mahogany and the thing was a perfect fit. If you decide you don't like the C-pig, get the black hawks. They are so clear and versatile and are perfect for shorter scaled, darker tone wood guitars. I have a set in my parker which is a Les paul scale length thats all mahogany with a baseball bat neck and they are sooooo good. If they don't work, reconsider the juggs. I feel they sound best in les paul style guitars. Just search youtube. :evil:
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he uses bass guitar strings on that thing (13 - 65 for B standard), do you think it's honestly a good idea? I get a hugely beefy / thick tone with 11 - 56s on an all mahogany axe with a Rebel Yell in the bridge.
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Most will agree I always back up the Warpigs and black hawks the most. GO FOR IT!
Dude, don't push me :) I don't need much to get the pigs...
They are so clear and versatile and are perfect for shorter scaled, darker tone wood guitars.
The Solo ATX is actually with a 25,5" scale, so it's regular.
... reconsider the juggs. I feel they sound best in les paul style guitars. Just search youtube. :evil:
I just don't like them, man. I know they're good, but their voicing is jut not my thing.
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Most will agree I always back up the Warpigs and black hawks the most. GO FOR IT!
Dude, don't push me :) I don't need much to get the pigs...
They are so clear and versatile and are perfect for shorter scaled, darker tone wood guitars.
The Solo ATX is actually with a 25,5" scale, so it's regular.
... reconsider the juggs. I feel they sound best in les paul style guitars. Just search youtube. :evil:
I just don't like them, man. I know they're good, but their voicing is jut not my thing.
-The C-pigs are not as dark as everyone makes them out to be. Just do it. If you don't like them, then return them and get a new pick up with BKPs return policy.
-As far as your solo ATX, if you go for the black hawks, get the alnico if you are worried about high end being too prominent with the ceramic option. If your guitar isn't too bright naturally and your amp set up isn't either, then just get the ceramic. I prefer the ceramic bridge for the BH and its still had a big sound.
-Either way, I don't think either of the two will disappoint you. If anything you will have a hard time deciding which one to keep. Hope this helps. :evil:
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he uses bass guitar strings on that thing (13 - 65 for B standard), do you think it's honestly a good idea? I get a hugely beefy / thick tone with 11 - 56s on an all mahogany axe with a Rebel Yell in the bridge.
If it's the C-pig, absolutely. Not every Warpig pick up will sound the same-ESPECIALLY when the company hand wounds them. My first warpig I purchased I HATED but I knew BKP hand wound their stuff so I figured each one will be different and had them send me a new one and it was perfect. :evil:
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^ Yep, maybe you're right. I really have to check the unplugged sound of the Schecter to figure out what are the predominant frequencies. With the Blackouts it sounds very balanced, but they are compressed as shite, a bit muddy and do not give the real picture. If I hear that the lows are not insane in the unplugged sound, I'll go for the piggy.
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^ Yep, maybe you're right. I really have to check the unplugged sound of the Schecter to figure out what are the predominant frequencies. With the Blackouts it sounds very balanced, but they are compressed as shitee, a bit muddy and do not give the real picture. If I hear that the lows are not insane in the unplugged sound, I'll go for the piggy.
Black Hawks really aren't as compressed as you would expect. Muddy? Not the set I have. Thats what surprised me most about them, was the clarity coupled with how big they sounded. Yes, there is compression but nothing that sounds like your head is under water. They sound more open to me. Maybe it's my set up or the set I received. Let us know what choice you make and what you think :evil:
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The OP is talking about the Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups currently in the guitar, not BK Black Hawks.
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The OP is talking about the Seymour Duncan Blackout pickups currently in the guitar, not BK Black Hawks.
I stand corrected. Sorry for reading that wrong. I agree with the blackouts being too compressed. Ditch them! :evil:
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I will! :) Earlier today I heard a sample of a Baritone (not sure who the manufacturer was) 7 string with Warpig into a Diezel D-moll and it sounded very very good. I'm really considering the C-pig/CS combination.
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I have heard that bass heavy pickups can sound pretty muddy in LP style guitars. Just be sure to check the sound of you axe while unplugged before making any decisions. I ::think:: my Les Paul would take a Holy Diver bridge in standard tuning but when the tuning gets lower, the beefiness can get to be a bit much for the pickup and the mud overtakes.
Like, 11 - 56 strings on an all mahogany solid body axe made a Rebel Yell sound huge, beefy, with tonnes of phat lows. That's one of the brightest and tightest pickups that BKP offers. Just throwing that out there. :evil:
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Hey guys, just a small update. I ordered the C-Pig and Cold Sweat for the Schecter. I will be out of town for the holidays, so I guess I'll try them in early 2015. Of course, I'll post some samples.
Happy holidays and a heavy new year!
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Hey guys, just a small update. I ordered the C-Pig and Cold Sweat for the Schecter. I will be out of town for the holidays, so I guess I'll try them in early 2015. Of course, I'll post some samples.
Happy holidays and a heavy new year!
YES!! Warpig for days!! :evil: