Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: keen007 on January 27, 2015, 09:27:28 PM
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Getting closer to making a decision now. I have a Les Paul Custom with an ebony fretboard which seems to flatten warm mids. The tone I am after is like Gary Moores on Cold Day in Hell. Warm mids and woody with slightly more than PAF heat. Will the VHII set retain the Les Paul identity. Will the neck give me a "SD Jazz " tube like smooth tone or am I better off with say a Cold Sweat in the neck and a Mule or Crawler in the bridge. Don't have the money to get this wrong. :undecided: I know that this is almost impossible to do by comment but would very much appreciate guidance.
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A quick summary:
Mule - open and dynamic 59 PAF - AIV-magnet
Abraxas - hotrodded Mule - more mids, less topend and compression than the Mule - AIV-magnet
Crawler - über-Mule - juicy, thick tones, round, but not dull topend and more compressed than the Abraxas - AV-magnet
Crawler can be a hit or miss in Les Pauls, but a bright one could benefit from it's bold tones.
VHII can be a hit or miss in a Les Paul: hot classic PAF, quite balanced, but compared to the Mule, more bass. Nearly uncompressed, very vocal, but also - to my ears - a little dry. Screams when you dig in, because it's a very touchsensitive pickup. The VHII performs most of the time well in alder/ash bolt-on guitars. In Les Pauls it's not everybody's darling.
My recommendation - based on your description - would be: Abraxas-bridge/Mule-neck.
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Thats really useful and comprehensive info and helps me make the distinctions I have been after. Thanks very much for this response.
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Abraxas - hotrodded Mule - more mids, less topend and compression than the Mule - AIV-magnet
I assumed you meant "less topend and more compression" ?
Crawler - über-Mule - juicy, thick tones, round, but not dull topend and more compressed than the Abraxas - AV-magnet
Actually AV bridge / AIV neck. I find the Crawler bridge to be more of an über-RiffRaff FWIW
@keen007: I don't have much experience with LP Custom, but the few I played were mostly fatter / darker than Standards, so the extra warmth and fatness from the Crawlers might over the top here - Crawlers really shine when you want to fatten up a thin/bright guitar.
Also keep in mind that
1. despite the vintage specs Mules (and RiffRaff) are far from shy... Not as much output as their hotter brothers for sure, but still enough to push your amp, so switching from say Nailbombs or Crawlers to Mules or RiffRaff doesn't require much adjustements to my settings (FWIW when it happens live I don't even bother adjusting anything), and
2. it's easier to filter out highs and add some compression than to remove compression or add missing top-end.
The Mule neck will deliver smooth vocal tones while keeping enough clarity / top-end to cut thru. The Mule bridge is quite bright (not a bad thing in a fat guitar) but fattens when you roll down the tone pot. If you want a bit more punch and focus, the RiffRaff bridge (AV, late PAF / early Patent N° specs) might be a good candidate, and FWIW the RR bridge / Mule neck is a well-known, working and quite versatile combo, or if you want to keep the highly organic vibe of the Mule but with a bit more push and compression (and a bit less high end) you can try the Abraxas bridge / Mule neck as telerocker suggests (disclaimer : no personal experience with the Abraxas and I don't know how well it will balance with a Mule neck).
Now don't forget to ask the BKP team for more advices... They do know their stuff.
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Abraxas - hotrodded Mule - more mids, less topend and compression than the Mule - AIV-magnet
I assumed you meant "less topend and more compression" ?
Crawler - über-Mule - juicy, thick tones, round, but not dull topend and more compressed than the Abraxas - AV-magnet
Actually AV bridge / AIV neck. I find the Crawler bridge to be more of an über-RiffRaff FWIW
@keen007: I don't have much experience with LP Custom, but the few I played were mostly fatter / darker than Standards, so the extra warmth and fatness from the Crawlers might over the top here - Crawlers really shine when you want to fatten up a thin/bright guitar.
Also keep in mind that
1. despite the vintage specs Mules (and RiffRaff) are far from shy... Not as much output as their hotter brothers for sure, but still enough to push your amp, so switching from say Nailbombs or Crawlers to Mules or RiffRaff doesn't require much adjustements to my settings (FWIW when it happens live I don't even bother adjusting anything), and
2. it's easier to filter out highs and add some compression than to remove compression or add missing top-end.
The Mule neck will deliver smooth vocal tones while keeping enough clarity / top-end to cut thru. The Mule bridge is quite bright (not a bad thing in a fat guitar) but fattens when you roll down the tone pot. If you want a bit more punch and focus, the RiffRaff bridge (AV, late PAF / early Patent N° specs) might be a good candidate, and FWIW the RR bridge / Mule neck is a well-known, working and quite versatile combo, or if you want to keep the highly organic vibe of the Mule but with a bit more push and compression (and a bit less high end) you can try the Abraxas bridge / Mule neck as telerocker suggests (disclaimer : no personal experience with the Abraxas and I don't know how well it will balance with a Mule neck).
Now don't forget to ask the BKP team for more advices... They do know their stuff.
Yeah less topend and more compression.
I was talking only bridgepickups. You're correct: the necks of those three related pickups are all AIV.
I don't think there's a big mismatch in a Abraxas-Mule-neck combination. Mule- and Abraxas-neck are equally hot, though the Mule uses 42 AWG plain enamel wire and the Abraxas 43 AWG plain enamel wire, so there is a slight difference between those neckpickups.
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I don't think there's a big mismatch in a Abraxas-Mule-neck combination. Mule- and Abraxas-neck are equally hot, though the Mule uses 42 AWG plain enamel wire and the Abraxas 43 AWG plain enamel wire, so there is a slight difference between those neckpickups.
Assuming a same DC resistance, 42AWG vs 43AWG does make a difference wrt/ output level. I just re-checked the specs for the Mules, Abraxas and Crawler and I fear the Abraxas bridge will overpower the Mule neck, and the Abraxas neck will be too hot for a LP Custom IMHO (it's almost as hot as a Crawler neck, same wire same gauge same magnet).
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I don't think the volumegap will be big. By example, Chris from BKP uses a Nantucket/Blue Note-neck combo. When I go from my Crawler-bridge to IT-neck the volumedrop is not very big too.
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Plenty of food for thought here. Thanks for the input folks. Just took classics out and put the burstbuckers in just for reference. The classic plus in bridge was good in bass and lower mids but was brash in higher mids, unusual as sounds acceptable in my Traditional. Burstbucker in comparison just seems boring in every part of EQ.
Seems to be the ebony fretboard which is the changing influentual factor which is a shame as it also makes the guitar very fluid on action.
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Seems to be the ebony fretboard which is the changing influentual factor.
Is your Custom a mahogany top or a maple top one ?
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Plenty of food for thought here. Thanks for the input folks. Just took classics out and put the burstbuckers in just for reference. The classic plus in bridge was good in bass and lower mids but was brash in higher mids, unusual as sounds acceptable in my Traditional. Burstbucker in comparison just seems boring in every part of EQ.
Seems to be the ebony fretboard which is the changing influentual factor which is a shame as it also makes the guitar very fluid on action.
Burstbuckers are imo quite mediocre.
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I can only comment on the VHII neck. It is warm and clear, as you say, BUT I don't feel it sounds like the Gary Moore song you say. I had it in my ESP Eclipse which also flattens the sound a bit (probably the ebony fretboard). I kind of felt it was a bit flat and didn't have enough bite/spark. Not like the SD Jazz.
I think your best bet is to write directly to the BKP team. I wouldn't be surprised if they recommend the Riff Raff or Mule set for that tone.
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Getting closer to making a decision now. I have a Les Paul Custom with an ebony fretboard which seems to flatten warm mids. The tone I am after is like Gary Moores on Cold Day in Hell. Warm mids and woody with slightly more than PAF heat. Will the VHII set retain the Les Paul identity. Will the neck give me a "SD Jazz " tube like smooth tone or am I better off with say a Cold Sweat in the neck and a Mule or Crawler in the bridge. Don't have the money to get this wrong. :undecided: I know that this is almost impossible to do by comment but would very much appreciate guidance.
I would not go for the VHII set in this case. The bridge pickup will not add warm mids - it is a rather punchy and aggressive beast and may be too much for a bright guitar with an ebony fretboard. The VHII neck is a nice pickup, also very punchy and can sound very aggressive if you dig into it.
If you are going for a SD Jazz like tone, the Holydiver neck may be the best option. It is my favorite BKP neck humbucker so far. The Crawler bridge should be a good match to it.
Cheers Stephan
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Plenty of food for thought here. Thanks for the input folks. Just took classics out and put the burstbuckers in just for reference. The classic plus in bridge was good in bass and lower mids but was brash in higher mids, unusual as sounds acceptable in my Traditional. Burstbucker in comparison just seems boring in every part of EQ.
Seems to be the ebony fretboard which is the changing influentual factor which is a shame as it also makes the guitar very fluid on action.
I'll apologise in advance for throwing a curveball in but I'd been looking for a pickup for my Kramer Nightswan for what seems like eons. 'Swans are mahogany body, maple neck and ebony fretboard axes with Les Paul scale necks. The problem I had was dealing with the flubby mahogany low end and brittle top ebony boards give you. The solution after trying 3 different BK's was "The One" by Lundgren. If Carlsberg built pickups............
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Plenty of food for thought here. Thanks for the input folks. Just took classics out and put the burstbuckers in just for reference. The classic plus in bridge was good in bass and lower mids but was brash in higher mids, unusual as sounds acceptable in my Traditional. Burstbucker in comparison just seems boring in every part of EQ.
Seems to be the ebony fretboard which is the changing influentual factor which is a shame as it also makes the guitar very fluid on action.
I'll apologise in advance for throwing a curveball in but I'd been looking for a pickup for my Kramer Nightswan for what seems like eons. 'Swans are mahogany body, maple neck and ebony fretboard axes with Les Paul scale necks. The problem I had was dealing with the flubby mahogany low end and brittle top ebony boards give you. The solution after trying 3 different BK's was "The One" by Lundgren. If Carlsberg built pickups............
BKP don't like peoples mentioning 'other' pups on their forum above their own. :wink:
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If you can't find a tight BKP that works for a mahogany body/ ebony board, I don't think the pickup is to blame.
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I'm pretty sure properly boosted mules can do that in a les paul custom
but aren't the PG Blues meant for that?
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If you can't find a tight BKP that works for a mahogany body/ ebony board, I don't think the pickup is to blame.
The problem was finding one that did both and had a the mid range I like. I've had about a dozen BK's pass through my guitars over the last decade so I think I've paid my dues fella!
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I love the Crawler bridge but I don't see it as being right for a Les Paul, especially if it's not a bright Les Paul. Having said that, I think there are certainly enough options for you.
Mules set - Classic PAF goodness and very versatile. There's a reason it's popular.
Abraxas bridge/Mule neck - A bit more power and compression in the bridge while still being a PAF. Another very versatile set.
Emerald set - If your LP is in any way dark, the Emerald set is awesome. Beautiful tones, as tight as many ceramics but with a a real sweetness to it. The neck is one of the best BKP do.
Cold Sweat bridge/Holydiver neck - The Cold Sweat is a fantastic bridge pickup for a Les Paul and much underrated here while the Holydiver neck is the best I've ever used.