Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: silence2-38554 on February 16, 2017, 07:23:29 AM
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Hey everyone! Been a while since I've been on here, but I'm on a mission to find the perfect pickups for my RG570. I've installed a pick guard on it, so the middle single coil has been deleted from the layout. This guitar has also had a brass sustain block installed on the Lo-Pro trem, which slightly emphasizes the low end and high-end harmonics. This guitar will be used primarily for Metalcore / modern rock & some djenty stuff.
For a neck pickup, I'm pretty set on a VHII. I've always wanted to try one. I currently have a Juggernaut set installed in the guitar and It's neck is very close to what I'm looking for, though I'd prefer something with less output & compression. I know the Jugg neck was based on the VHII so I think I'm on the right track.
As for the bridge pickup- I had a set of Dimarzio Titans installed in this guitar & they just reminded me too much of Aftermaths (my least favorite BKP). Just dry, sharp, shrill, stiff to play. Ick. So today, I pulled those & swapped in a set of Juggernauts.
My impression of the Jugg bridge in this guitar is that I would like there to be a tad less low mid and I would like that low mid to grind more. The Jugg's low mid is very present and very round. I could use a bit more upper-mids and the treble of the Jugg is still a little sharp when tremolo picking high strings.
Based on all this & reading through countless other reviews, I'm leaning toward a Nailbomb in the bridge, but I have no idea if I'd go Alnico or Ceramic.
Other BKP's I've tried & impressions-
Holy Diver- a good pickup, but not quite tight / aggressive enough for what I'm looking for.
Painkiller- I love this pickup, but it's a little over the top for what I'm looking for in this guitar. Surprisingly, I've found this bridge pickup to have one of the smoother high-end responses in regard to tremolo picking high notes.
A-Hawk- Loved this pickup but even in the Alnico form the high end was a little too sharp.
Aftermath & Jugg- See above.
Hopefully you guys can help me out based on this. I really am leaning toward / wanting to try Nailbombs, but by all means, please suggest what you think would work best in this guitar!
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Based on your preferences and style you might want to look more closely at the Impulse set.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-5Ysauhjw4
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I think you're on the right lines with the A-Bomb. It's hairy, VERY aggressive, very tight and has loads of the upper mids you're after.
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That's really weird about the juggs having a 'sharp treble' during trem picking. In my experience, the are certainly rounded and present in the low mids, but the upper mids are smooth, even if there is somewhat of a bite in the treble. Not a harsh pickup at all.
Even more weird about the upper mid dominant painkillers having a smoother top end than juggs. Totally opposite from my experience with these pickups.
The A-Bomb is hairy and it has this low mid grind you are talking about. Its a balanced sounding pickup but this means that the top end is more present and aggressive than the Juggs. In a Les Paul, the treble is sharper and the pick attack is more present than the Juggs installed in a brighter guitar.
I would take the A-Bomb in a Les Paul and the Juggernaut Bridge in a Baswood Body / Maple Neck RG, but that's just me.
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I would take the A-Bomb in a Les Paul and the Juggernaut Bridge in a Baswood Body / Maple Neck RG, but that's just me.
I would agree that my first choice for a home for an A-Bomb would be a Les Paul. I think that with all that hair and aggression, it needs the weight of mahogany in a Les Paul to tame it a bit. I've never tried a Juggernaut so I can't comment as well. Lots of people seem to like it and the specs look good, I just still haven't found a clip of it I actually like but even with my reservations, it's never struck me as a particularly harsh sounding pickup and given the Misha association, an Ibanez RG looks like a natural home for it.
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I would take the A-Bomb in a Les Paul and the Juggernaut Bridge in a Baswood Body / Maple Neck RG, but that's just me.
I would agree that my first choice for a home for an A-Bomb would be a Les Paul. I think that with all that hair and aggression, it needs the weight of mahogany in a Les Paul to tame it a bit. I've never tried a Juggernaut so I can't comment as well. Lots of people seem to like it and the specs look good, I just still haven't found a clip of it I actually like but even with my reservations, it's never struck me as a particularly harsh sounding pickup and given the Misha association, an Ibanez RG looks like a natural home for it.
Ya exactly
I would love to .hear an a-bomb in an explorer. It certainly takes well to a Les Paul where the warmer and beefier instrument adds warmth to the sound.
I think basswood adds upper mids,.articulation and bite to the Juggernauts so it is possible that the OP simply does not like this combination. I have Juggs in an rg7421 and a redline III. They are smooth and dark in the redline .III and lively and articulate in the RG. I really like both.
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I would take the A-Bomb in a Les Paul and the Juggernaut Bridge in a Baswood Body / Maple Neck RG, but that's just me.
I would agree that my first choice for a home for an A-Bomb would be a Les Paul. I think that with all that hair and aggression, it needs the weight of mahogany in a Les Paul to tame it a bit. I've never tried a Juggernaut so I can't comment as well. Lots of people seem to like it and the specs look good, I just still haven't found a clip of it I actually like but even with my reservations, it's never struck me as a particularly harsh sounding pickup and given the Misha association, an Ibanez RG looks like a natural home for it.
Ya exactly
I would love to .hear an a-bomb in an explorer. It certainly takes well to a Les Paul where the warmer and beefier instrument adds warmth to the sound.
I think basswood adds upper mids,.articulation and bite to the Juggernauts so it is possible that the OP simply does not like this combination. I have Juggs in an rg7421 and a redline III. They are smooth and dark in the redline .III and lively and articulate in the RG. I really like both.
So interesting. Possibly it's due to the brass block I have installed in this guitar, but if anything I'd say this guitar needs some help in the upper mids. Also, I should clarify- I think the Jugg set sounds fantastic in this guitar. However, I'm looking to add a bit of variety to my guitars, so I'm looking for a pickup set that sounds good in this guitar in addition to the Juggs. Right now I'm heavily leaning toward the A-Bomb for the bridge, as it seems like the perfect middle ground between the Holy Diver & C-Bomb.
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Interesting. What amp are you playing through?
I have some observations and ideas but I don't know if they are directly applicable.
I noticed with my guitars, that the acoustic tone of the guitar really influences how the pickup sounds.
For instance, I have an Ibanez RG7421 with a maple neck, rosewood board, and basswood body. The Juggernaut 7s in this guitar have a lot of focus on the upper mids and they sound very articulate. The pickups are phat and round in the low mids but somehow the richness, nuance, and complexity of the tone exists in the mids, upper mids, and treble, while the round bass is sort of vanilla or just kind of there.
I have a Godin Redline III with a LFR. It is a maple neck, rosewood board, but it has a soft maple body with poplar wings. The tone of the guitar is very similar to a balanced sounding Fender Strat. Imagine a darker version of a strat, or an otherwise somewhat bright guitar with a nice core in the low mids. The Juggernaut 6 set I have sounds rounded and gutteral with somewhat of a hollow character to the mids. The low mids just pound like a sledgehammer and there is more of a growl and complexity in this frequency range. White there is a satisfying bite in the treble, the rolled off high mids make the guitar sound creamy and very smooth, even when the pickup is extremely articulate and turns aggressive when I dig in.
My Gibson Les Paul has an A-Bomb in the bridge. Acoustically, the instrument almost reminds me of an acoustic guitar. It is resonant with nice highs, present mids, and a huge, resonant, and very open sounding low end. With the A-Bomb, this guitar sounds very articulate, warm, hairy, pissed off, and it just roars. There is a huge amount of complexity in the mids and low mids while the high end more shimmers. I can't help but think that in a basswood body instrument with a natural focus on the high mids, that this pickup would quickly become honky and strident.
My Godin LG is a mahogany bolt on neck and rosewood board instrument with a solid and heavy mahogany body. Acoustically it has a weird twang in the highs but it has a tonne of sound focused on the low mids which makes the guitar sound boomy. Even acoustically, the lows are tubby sounding with less weight in the mids and a natural dip in the high mids where the treble then starts to 'stick out'.
I took a chance and put a Rebel Yell in this guitar. In a Les Paul, it lacked output somewhat, and was very bright with a focus on the upper mids. In the Rebel Yell it sounds enormous. The contributions from the guitar just provide the reinforcement in the lows while the pickups contribute the upper mids and the wonderful harmonic sheen. The result is an articulate pickup that this huge, wide chainsaw grind to the sound.
The interaction between pickups, wood, and construction create a sound which is then shaped by an amp. The trick is to find pieces that just work well together. In your case, trying the A-Bomb will either work or not work. I'm very curious as to what the outcome will be.
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When I tried the A-Bomb it was in a maple neck-thru, which tends to have upper mids naturally so in combination with the A-Bomb, the result was hideous but it was very clearly the combination of pickup and guitar that didn't work. When I was looking for a pickup to replace the 498T in my Les Paul, I very nearly bought an A-Bomb because I know there's a great pickup in there for the right guitar. If your guitar is lacking aggressive upper mids, the A-Bomb will give you that back in Spades but if the upper mids are already strong, it's a pickup to avoid. What I would say is that an A-Bomb is NOTHING like a Holydiver so it certainly isn't any middle ground between a Holydiver and anything. If you just wanted a Holydiver with a bit more tightness and aggression, you'd be looking at a Miracle Man, which is very similar but has a stronger bottom end, lower mids and highs but is a little scooped in the upper mids. Thgis is why it's ideal for maple neck-thru guitars.
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That's why I found the Cold Sweat to be much better in my SG Standard than the A-Bomb I put it there first. Middy guitar + middy pickup is not a good combination. I need still more bottom end than the CS can give me so I have a Miracle Man bridge pickup on the way right now. It was always a toss-up between the CS and the MM; trying the MM now for more bottom end and less mids
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That sounds like it should work really well. I haven't been a fan of ceramic pickups for quite some time and I was never overly struck on them but I have fond memories of the Cold Sweat and the Miracle Man was great. It was much warmer, smoother and organic than I ever expected to find in a ceramic pickup and the bigger bottom end makes it sound much bigger than the Holydiver while the highs makes it really scream on leads. Looking back on all the pickups I've had from BKP, the Miracle Man is one I'd perhaps revisit and although I didn't think it at the time, I now see it as a better option than the Holydiver in many respects. The Miracle Man does exactly what it's supposed to and it does it perfectly and with great tone whereas I'm no longer convinced the Holydiver quite gets its target tone right. I'd be interested in reading a review of your Miracle Man in an SG.
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Well here's another question that someone here may be able to answer- Aside from the magnet, are the A-Bomb & C-Bomb bridge identical? If so, I'll just order the A-Bomb & if I'm not digging it for whatever reason I'll just swap out the mag for ceramic. Done it before plenty of times, not a difficult job at all on non-covered PU's.
I know that BK will sometimes do little "under the hood" tweaks to specific models to compensate for one thing or another, like how covered pickups are wound slightly different than uncovered.
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As far as I understand, the A & C Bomb are the same except for the magnet, but swapping the magnet voids the warranty on the pickup.
You can just use the 10 day exchange policy haha.
Something I'd like to try: An Alnico V / Ceramic hybrid Nailbomb. Same idea as the Juggernaut Bridge. That would be cool!!
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As far as I understand, the A & C Bomb are the same except for the magnet, but swapping the magnet voids the warranty on the pickup.
You can just use the 10 day exchange policy haha.
Something I'd like to try: An Alnico V / Ceramic hybrid Nailbomb. Same idea as the Juggernaut Bridge. That would be cool!!
True, but I've often heard that the 10 day exchange is prohibitive going back & forth between the US & UK. Though, it could make sense to do if the pickup is just not a good match at all to the guitar.
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Oh, you are in the US. You should contact BKP support directly about this and see what they recommend.
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If in doubt the C-Bomb is the safer option
Neither Nailbomb is a great lead pickup though. If you want to use the bridge pickup for leads I would go for something else like a Miracle Man or Holy Diver.
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Safer option in what regard?
Also, I realized I didn't mention in the OP- this particular Ibanez has had all of the finish stripped off of the body & neck then re-finished with Tru-Oil & wax. I'm starting to realize just how much the finish has an impact on the acoustic tone of a guitar & feel that this may be impacting my difficulty in finding a proper pickup for this guitar.
What I think is contributing to this RG having more low-mid than typical RG's-
Re-finished with only Tru-Oil & wax (body & neck)
KGC brass block installed on Lo-Pro bridge
Tremol-no installed & pretty much always locked, further coupling the bridge to the body
I just compared the acoustic tone of the 570 to my 4 other guitars & it certainly seems to have the most even tone. My .strandberg* Bodens have a lot more high end / high mids and my Sabre Syren is much darker due to it's wenge neck. This explains why I prefer the Juggs in the Boden & the Painkiller in the Sabre. The Nailbomb still seems to make sense as a middle ground in the Ibanez but the alnico / ceramic decision is killing me haha
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Ask BK for a Ceramic / Alnico hybrid. DOO IT!!!
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Safer with regard to the 'mids monster' possibility.
On the other hand the alnico version will be a bit better for leads, but neither version is the best lead pickup. They are great rhythm pickups, nice and tight.
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If it has to be a Nailbomb I'd also be inclined to go alnico because of the better leads and greater versatility but I confess I'm still hesitant as it really is an 'all or nothing' pickup. It's also, to my mind at least, nowhere even remotely close to the 'middle ground' you're talking about if one of those reference points is a Holydiver. As a result of all this, perhaps it's time that we review what we have and perhaps look at some 'left field' solutions. Everything so far has come from the Contemporary section and you've dismissed the Juggernaut, Holydiver, Painkiller, Black Hawk and Aftermath already. The Warpig and Miracle Man will have too much low end so they can go too, as can the Crawler which won't be tight enough anyway. I have severe doubts the Impulse will be what you want and there is clearly doubt about the Nailbombs. That doesn't leave us with much but it does leave us with a couple of intriguing possibilities.
Rebel Yell - Based heavily on the Nailbomb but toned down a bit. Personally I'm not sure in your guitar but if it's as balanced as you say and you want more upper mids with a good lead tone, this might be a better option than the A-Bomb.
Cold Sweat - This is nothing like as bright as the EQ chart suggests in my opinion, though it is 'bright' overall. A lot of this is due to the fact that as well as a strong top end, it has some nice upper mids that are nothing like as harsh as you get on the Nailbomb. It's tight so will take lower tunings like a trooper. It's also a fantastic lead pickup. This could well be worth a look even though its natural home is a Les Paul (like a Nailbomb).
After this you've exhausted the Contemporary section so I started to think about other alternatives. There are a number of pickups that can be said to be broadly related to the Holydiver. The Miracle Man retains that smoothness but with it being a hotter wind, it has the darkness you don't want. Going the other way, you get to the Black Dog and once I started thinking about this one, it started to really make a LOT of sense. It has the throatiness that you think of with a Nailbomb but toned down somewhat. It gives quite broad mids like the Holydiver but with it being a lighter wind, tends to be a bit brighter overall so it should give you that bit more boost in the upper mids that you're after without becoming harsh in any way. It should also pair very well with a VHII in the neck and give you great leads, as well as being easily tight enough for lower tunings, hence it's a popular Metal pickup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaqEET376-I
This strikes me as far more of the middle ground you're talking about than the Nailbomb. The vintage hot wind coupled with modern wire gives you a great versatile 'middle ground' pickup with awesome tone. I really think you'd be surprised with this one as I think it might be your best option. Can't think why I didn't think of it earlier!
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Black Dog sounds like a very interesting recommendation.
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I've been thinking of this all day since I made the suggestion of a Black Dog and I honestly can't think of a downside. The more I've thought about it, the more sure I've become that a Black Dog is the way to go. Just think of what is required of this pickup:
Tight - Yes
Capable of taking low tunings - Yes
Great lead tone - Yes
The throatiness of a Nailbomb - Yes
Aggression - Yes
More top end with upper mids - Yes
No harshness - Yes
A rich and organic tone - Yes
Smooth high end - Yes
No sharpness - Yes
Perfect middle ground between Holydiver and C-Bomb - YES
The Black Dog ticks ALL of the boxes. I think that as soon as Metalcore was mentioned we became fixated on contemporary pickups but there's no reason to, especially as the OP probably already has an amp that gives him more than enough gain and we know perfectly well that the Black Dog can cover that style with ease. I've probably put more thought into this thread than most others I've contributed to and I'm utterly convinced that this would be a great option for the OP based on everything he's told us.
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Ya. Very good call.
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my first thought was black dog too
not a middlegrounder at all, though, and I wouldn't call it aggressive compared to the others, except the holy diver
nothing a mild boost/eq/overdrive/compressor pedal won't deliver
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When I said 'middle ground' it was only in relation to the fact that it seems to hit a lot of ground between the Holydiver and Nailbomb while also having the right EQ. It sounded like he wanted something that was a bit more aggressive than the Holydiver without the extremity of a Nailbomb and again, the Black Dog hits that ground. We seem to have reached a bit of a consensus however that on balance, the Black Dog is probably the best option.
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I've been thinking of this all day since I made the suggestion of a Black Dog and I honestly can't think of a downside. The more I've thought about it, the more sure I've become that a Black Dog is the way to go. Just think of what is required of this pickup:
Tight - Yes
Capable of taking low tunings - Yes
Great lead tone - Yes
The throatiness of a Nailbomb - Yes
Aggression - Yes
More top end with upper mids - Yes
No harshness - Yes
A rich and organic tone - Yes
Smooth high end - Yes
No sharpness - Yes
Perfect middle ground between Holydiver and C-Bomb - YES
The Black Dog ticks ALL of the boxes. I think that as soon as Metalcore was mentioned we became fixated on contemporary pickups but there's no reason to, especially as the OP probably already has an amp that gives him more than enough gain and we know perfectly well that the Black Dog can cover that style with ease. I've probably put more thought into this thread than most others I've contributed to and I'm utterly convinced that this would be a great option for the OP based on everything he's told us.
Dude, I SO appreciate all the thought you put into this! How would you compare the Black Dog and Rebel Yell? Listening to this clip:
https://youtu.be/hSoDFyYSauc
The Black Dog is actually one of my favorites tone-wise out of all the metal stuff. I really wanted to take this as an opportunity to try out the Nailbomb, but I think the Black Dog is more along the lines of what this guitar really needs. What's the Black Dog neck like? Will the bridge pair up well with a VHII neck or should I look at the Black Dog set? My main issue with BKP sets, with the exception of the Juggernaut set, is that the neck pickup ALWAYS sounds like a bridge pickup in the neck position to me. The Holy Diver neck was probably my least favorite, just as a point of comparison to the Black Dog.
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If you like the jugerneck pair the black dog bridge with a vh II neck.
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A Black Dog bridge and VHII neck should work beautifully.
I'm really thrown by your comment about the neck pickups sounding like bridge pickups. In theory, this is perfectly understandable as there's no earthly reason why any of the pickups needs to just be used in the bridge or neck. I think it might feel that way because a handwound pickup offers so much more articulation than mass produced items, which is what we normally associate with a bridge pickup. I find BKP and some other handwinders unusual in this respect as their neck versions are so very different to the bridge versions. I actually really liked the Holydiver neck, though I admit that it's nothing like the 80's Metal tone I was expecting, which is why I eventually paired an Emerald neck pickup with the Holydiver bridge while I used the Holydiver neck with a Crawler bridge as it had a more PAF feel. What they all seem to have in common is fantastic articulation. Perhaps that's why they sound like bridge pickups.
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A Black Dog bridge and VHII neck should work beautifully.
I'm really thrown by your comment about the neck pickups sounding like bridge pickups. In theory, this is perfectly understandable as there's no earthly reason why any of the pickups needs to just be used in the bridge or neck. I think it might feel that way because a handwound pickup offers so much more articulation than mass produced items, which is what we normally associate with a bridge pickup. I find BKP and some other handwinders unusual in this respect as their neck versions are so very different to the bridge versions. I actually really liked the Holydiver neck, though I admit that it's nothing like the 80's Metal tone I was expecting, which is why I eventually paired an Emerald neck pickup with the Holydiver bridge while I used the Holydiver neck with a Crawler bridge as it had a more PAF feel. What they all seem to have in common is fantastic articulation. Perhaps that's why they sound like bridge pickups.
I think you hit the nail on the head, actually. It's the extra treble, or articulation, I'm not used to & could not jive with. To clarify, my favorite production neck pickup ever is the Dimarzio Air Norton. Super fluid, no high end at all. Perfect for a neck pickup IMO haha. This is also why I like the Juggernaut neck & will most likely be into the VHII.
Back to the bridge pickup, how would you compare the Black Dog & Rebel Yell? They both seem to be described as high-mid forward, lower gain than BKP's really high output models, still good for metal but flexible enough to do rock, etc. as well. If the pickups really are that similar, I would prefer the model with more of it's own "character", "hair", etc. I really dislike sterile pickups, which is why I didn't like the Aftermath, Cold Sweat, Lace Alumitones, etc. The more complex the sonic character is, the better. Judging from the Modern Metal clip mash-up I posted, the Black Dog is sounding pretty sweet in this regard, but this is what really attracted me to the A-Bomb in the first place.
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A Black Dog bridge and VHII neck should work beautifully.
I'm really thrown by your comment about the neck pickups sounding like bridge pickups. In theory, this is perfectly understandable as there's no earthly reason why any of the pickups needs to just be used in the bridge or neck. I think it might feel that way because a handwound pickup offers so much more articulation than mass produced items, which is what we normally associate with a bridge pickup. I find BKP and some other handwinders unusual in this respect as their neck versions are so very different to the bridge versions. I actually really liked the Holydiver neck, though I admit that it's nothing like the 80's Metal tone I was expecting, which is why I eventually paired an Emerald neck pickup with the Holydiver bridge while I used the Holydiver neck with a Crawler bridge as it had a more PAF feel. What they all seem to have in common is fantastic articulation. Perhaps that's why they sound like bridge pickups.
I think you hit the nail on the head, actually. It's the extra treble, or articulation, I'm not used to & could not jive with. To clarify, my favorite production neck pickup ever is the Dimarzio Air Norton. Super fluid, no high end at all. Perfect for a neck pickup IMO haha. This is also why I like the Juggernaut neck & will most likely be into the VHII.
Back to the bridge pickup, how would you compare the Black Dog & Rebel Yell? They both seem to be described as high-mid forward, lower gain than BKP's really high output models, still good for metal but flexible enough to do rock, etc. as well. If the pickups really are that similar, I would prefer the model with more of it's own "character", "hair", etc. I really dislike sterile pickups, which is why I didn't like the Aftermath, Cold Sweat, Lace Alumitones, etc. The more complex the sonic character is, the better. Judging from the Modern Metal clip mash-up I posted, the Black Dog is sounding pretty sweet in this regard, but this is what really attracted me to the A-Bomb in the first place.
Compared to an A-Bomb, the Rebel Yell is clearer and more open sounding with less grunt in the low. The A-Bomb is hairy and 'dissonant' sounding which causes it to have a lot of perceived gain. The Rebel Yell is consonant and it growls with this harmonic evenness. The trouble is that the low end is high, tight, and clear, without much low mids at all. It has upper mids but beyond that, no one frequency really sticks out. There is a harmonic sheen that surrounds notes and chords. In my experience, the Rebel Yell sounded good but a bit bright in my Les Paul. Lacking output.
I put it in a solid mahogany guitar with a bolt on mahogany neck and rosewood board and the results were astounding. The Mahogany adds back in the missing low mids and the Rebel Yell sounds absolutely immense in that guitar.
To me, it sounds like the Black Dog has more lows and less highs than the Rebel Yell? Seems like it would work better for what you want. Make no mistake, the Rebel Yell is awesome. I just love it in a very dark guitar.
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I think Yellowjacket has it about right here. The Rebel Yell may be a great pickup but to my mind, it's a pickup very definitely designed for a Les Paul style guitar. The upper mids are smoother than the very hairy and aggressive Nailbomb and that's great but without your guitar naturally producing low end, it's going to seem rather bright. Being a lighter wind, the Black Dog will tend to be naturally brighter anyway as the hotter the wind, the darker a pickup tends to sound but that's fine because you end up with a pickup that is bright enough for what you want while retaining enough low mids and bottom end to come across as more balanced. The Holydiver has a broad set of mids and my overall impression has always been that the Black Dog is similar but the lighter wind makes it that bit brighter overall. I think this is why the website talks about a 'deep bottom end' and many reviews then say the pickup is brighter than they expected. The description on the website makes it sound like some sort of vintage Warpig in some respects and it's not. What you do end up with is a PAF-style pickup that gives a more muscular, throaty and deeper tone than others because of the broad sweep of mids but remains bright and articulate compared to its hotter and darker brethren. The other thing I'd say, if you're looking for something a bit different is that in the BKP range, the Black Dog is unusual. For the most part, PAF-style pickups use 42AWG wire with either an AII, AIV or AV magnet. Modern pickups tend to be AV or ceramic magnets with 43, 44 or 45AWG wire, depending on the output. The Rebel Yell is typical of this approach but the Black Dog is that bit different because you have a hot PAF wind with modern wire and this is one of the reasons why, despite not looking much hotter than a VHII bridge, you get a pickup that is thicker, throatier, more aggressive and generally has more grunt. Frankly I'd love to see BKP do this a bit more. The Emerald neck uses an AIV magnet with 43AWG and that's unusual, which is one of the reasons I love it. The neck pickup in my Les Paul is an AII magnet with 42.5AWG - again unusual and the results are fantastic. Don't be put off by the description of 'deep bottom end' because it's brighter than you'd imagine with the upper mids you're after, it's just that it's not heavily focused there like it is with the Rebel Yell.
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If in doubt the C-Bomb is the safer option
Neither Nailbomb is a great lead pickup though. If you want to use the bridge pickup for leads I would go for something else like a Miracle Man or Holy Diver.
I totally agree with that. As I have both CBomb and MM bridge models, I can confirm that Cbombs weakest side are leads. It`s great rhythm pickup which shines especially in hard rock in my opinion, giving it some modern twist and aggression but when it comes to leads in general my Miracle Man is waaaaay better without a doubt. Although Cbomb has also nice cleans for ceramic magnet.
For example when last weekend I was recording my band`s first EP all leads were done with MM bridge while rhythm parts were mixed Cbomb/MM.
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Okay, well.... I was just about to pull the trigger on the Black Dog bridge / VHII neck set, then I realized I wasn't totally sure the VHII Is the right answer for the neck of this guitar. Reading around, it seems like the Emerald neck and Black Dog neck would also be worthy for the voice I'm looking for. Again, I love the Juggerneck, which is essentially a beefed up VHII. So, I know I'd like the VHII but at the same time, I sorta already have access to that tone in the Juggerneck. If I'm going for versatility, should I maybe consider something else?
The Emerald neck is very intriguing to me, due to the fact that it is also an unconventionally constructed pickup, much like the Black Dog bridge. Would they pair up well? When I had a Holy Diver set a couple years ago, everyone suggested the Emerald neck since I hated how much attack the Holy Diver neck had. So, if the outputs work well together, I may go for Black Dog bridge / Emerald neck.
Can anyone here compare the VHII / Emerald / Black Dog neck models? Thanks!
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The Emerald neck is probably the best BKP neck pickup I've ever used and together with the Holydiver neck, helped to form my current thinking of how I like my neck pickups constructed, though the Emerald and Holydiver neck pickups are quite different in many respects. No other Bare Knuckle combines an AIV magnet with 43AWG wire and that combination of vintage magnet and modern wire creates an incredible pickup. It's very articulate while also being quite thick, fluid and creamy. The Black Dog uses slightly more vintage 42.5AWG wire but pairs it with a slightly less 'vintage' AV magnet. The VHII retains the AV magnet but sticks to more traditional 42AWG wire. On that basis, I would expect the VHII to have the most rounded bass response because that's what 42AWG wire always does to my ears, though the AV magnet will mean it's still very articulate. It's significant that the Juggernaut neck, while very similar to the VHII, switches to 42.5AWG wire to give it a slightly crisper response in the bottom end.
On paper, the Emerald neck looks hotter than the Black Dog bridge but of course, slightly thinner wire accounts for part of that. Nevertheless, it will still be very close in power to the Black Dog bridge and on that basis, I'd be inclined to go for the Black Dog set or possibly try a Riff Raff in the neck, the same as Bruce Dickinson. The change in wire can have a big impact. My own favourite neck pickup at the moment uses an AII magnet with 42.5AWG wire and it's sublime.
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Alright, well, at this point I suppose it's really a decision between the Black Dog & VHII neck. Tough finding many direct comparisons between these two.....
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That's really weird about the juggs having a 'sharp treble' during trem picking. In my experience, the are certainly rounded and present in the low mids, but the upper mids are smooth, even if there is somewhat of a bite in the treble. Not a harsh pickup at all.
Even more weird about the upper mid dominant painkillers having a smoother top end than juggs. Totally opposite from my experience with these pickups.
The A-Bomb is hairy and it has this low mid grind you are talking about. Its a balanced sounding pickup but this means that the top end is more present and aggressive than the Juggs. In a Les Paul, the treble is sharper and the pick attack is more present than the Juggs installed in a brighter guitar.
I would take the A-Bomb in a Les Paul and the Juggernaut Bridge in a Baswood Body / Maple Neck RG, but that's just me.
I wanted to update this thread & let everyone know that I figured out why I thought the treble of the Jugg and A-Hawk were overly sharp. It's because I had both of those pickups installed in guitars with only a volume pot, no tone! To test this, I opened up the back of my 570, which still has the Juggs in it & soldered a 470k resistor in series with a .022 cap from the pot's casing to the output lug. This simulates a tone pot being part of the circuit & low & behold, the screechy high end of the Jugg bridge is GONE! When I felt the A-Hawk had the same issue, it was installed in my old RGD2127z, a 26.5" scale 7 string with only a volume pot. Man, I will never judge a pickup's tone without a tone pot (or equivalent resistor / cap) again!!
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This is probably what I need on the neck pickup of my Explorer. Do you have a diagram of how to wire this up?
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This is probably what I need on the neck pickup of my Explorer. Do you have a diagram of how to wire this up?
I actually just stumbled across this thread over on sevenstring & followed Nolly's advice-
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?t=320215
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Thanks. So you just went down to the local electronics shop and bought any old 500K resistor and added that with a capacitor? I might do that. I still have the capacitor and tone pot that I took out, so I could use the capacitor and combine it with a little resistor. It's only the neck pickup that needs it, the bridge is fine with nothing.
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Thanks. So you just went down to the local electronics shop and bought any old 500K resistor and added that with a capacitor? I might do that. I still have the capacitor and tone pot that I took out, so I could use the capacitor and combine it with a little resistor. It's only the neck pickup that needs it, the bridge is fine with nothing.
Essentially, yes. I had a small pack of 470k 1/2w resistors lying around that I used to test the results. Now that I know it accomplishes what I'm after, I'll probably order some 549k 1/4w resistors from Mouser (550k isn't really a common value). Is your explorer wired with independent volume controls & no tone? If so, yes, doing this tweak to just the neck pickup's volume pot should get you where you want to be!
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Yes it is just two volume controls and a selector switch.
470K would probably be about right for what I want, which is to darken the neck pickup a bit
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I bought some resistors, one of the packs is 470K 0.5W metal film, the other is 470K 1W carbon. All I could remember when I went in there was 470K and the guy in the shop wasn't much help, so I bought two that I thought might work rather than spend the money on fuel coming back later (they were cheap). From your post I am thinking I should use the 1W carbon type.
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Thanks. I installed a 470K resistor and .022uf PIO cap tonight. Unfortunately in doing so I managed to break the connection between the neck volume pot and the selector switch (snapped the shielded mil-spec wire moving stuff around) but got it all working again eventually.
(http://i.imgur.com/ggVsKTe.jpg)
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That's really weird about the juggs having a 'sharp treble' during trem picking. In my experience, the are certainly rounded and present in the low mids, but the upper mids are smooth, even if there is somewhat of a bite in the treble. Not a harsh pickup at all.
Even more weird about the upper mid dominant painkillers having a smoother top end than juggs. Totally opposite from my experience with these pickups.
The A-Bomb is hairy and it has this low mid grind you are talking about. Its a balanced sounding pickup but this means that the top end is more present and aggressive than the Juggs. In a Les Paul, the treble is sharper and the pick attack is more present than the Juggs installed in a brighter guitar.
I would take the A-Bomb in a Les Paul and the Juggernaut Bridge in a Baswood Body / Maple Neck RG, but that's just me.
I wanted to update this thread & let everyone know that I figured out why I thought the treble of the Jugg and A-Hawk were overly sharp. It's because I had both of those pickups installed in guitars with only a volume pot, no tone! To test this, I opened up the back of my 570, which still has the Juggs in it & soldered a 470k resistor in series with a .022 cap from the pot's casing to the output lug. This simulates a tone pot being part of the circuit & low & behold, the screechy high end of the Jugg bridge is GONE! When I felt the A-Hawk had the same issue, it was installed in my old RGD2127z, a 26.5" scale 7 string with only a volume pot. Man, I will never judge a pickup's tone without a tone pot (or equivalent resistor / cap) again!!
This is very interesting. My redline III with just a volume pot was always dark and phat. About 3 weeks ago the D saddle stripped where the locking screw secures. I tried monkeying around with a replacement oem saddle but it did not fit right. In frustration, I upgraded to Schaller bridge and now the guitar is behaving much more the way you are describing.
For the install, by some miracle the pins lined up, the rout fit, and the stud holes were the correct size. I am now sad that I will never win the lottery.
I have a 0 load pot and a 0.022uF cap on order for the guitar. Also saddle shims to fine tune my action.
I converted the guitar to Ibanez wiring by spinning the neck pickup 180 degrees and wiring it backwards to the BKP diagram. I am also using a 331pF cap on the volume pot to preserve the high end as I roll down the volume pot.
Once all the components arrive, I will update you. It is just weird to think that my perception of the pickups was so heavily coloured by the influence of the OEM bridge.
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Hey everyone, just wanted to update this thread to let everyone know where I landed on this. In short: A-Bomb bridge and VHII neck won. Here's how I got there:
From the Titans I had in the guitar that I just couldn't get along with (too dry, felt like Aftermaths, which I also detest) I swapped in a set of Juggernauts I had in another guitar. These felt MUCH better, but I wasn't really getting the sound I wanted for this guitar. The goal was versatility, but still all-out aggression if called for.
So, after endless hours of reading and listening to audio clips, it came down to two potential pickups I wanted to try for each position. I ordered a VHII & Emerald neck, and a Black Dog and A-Bomb bridge.
Neck- This was a tough decision. The Emerald is great and very unique sounding, but wasn't what I was looking for in this particular guitar. It's sort of like a VHII with more articulate pick attack. Sort of like a VHII neck and Holy Diver neck had an alnico IV baby I guess lol. It wasn't that I disliked the Emerald, it's just that the VHII is SO good. Listening back to audio clips, it is absolutely a less-compressed Juggernaut neck pickup (makes sense). The VHII has this beautiful flutey / smokey thing going on with the mids (not tubey like an aftermath neck) while remaining articulate. It's probably my favorite neck pickup that I have tried in any guitar ever. Totally blown away.
Bridge- This was also a tough decision & took a lot of A/B listening to decide. I can see the Black Dog being an incredibly versatile pickup. However, just because it CAN do metal doesn't mean it was built for it. I just like having a little more power under my picking hand & that's where the A-Bomb succeeded. I found the mids of the BD to be very even, lending to it's versatility but detracting from it really having much of it's own character. The NB, otoh, has TONS of personality, grinds, snarls, etc. Just out of curiosity, I'll probably swap in a C8 magnet into the NB just to see what the C-Bomb is like, too. For the sake of versatility, I'm glad I went A-Bomb, though! One interesting note that I was not expecting- when tremolo picking leads on the bridge pickup, the attack of the BD was actually a bit sharper / harsher than the NB.
Thanks again for the input everyone!
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So I finally got around to swapping that ceramic magnet into the Nailbomb & boy oh boy, is it staying. Everything about the pickup improved immediately & I love everything about it now. The bottom end tightened up, the note clarity & string separation under gain improved, pinch harmonics are much easier to pull off & best of all, after a bunch of A/B listening to recordings, the treble strings really don't seem to be any sharper than they were with the alnico magnet.
So then, the winning combo for the Ibanez RG570 was a C-Bomb in the bridge & VHII in the neck. I A/B recorded & listened back to my other 6 strings (.strandberg* with Juggernauts and a tele with Piledrivers) and I think the Ibby might not only be my favorite for the main tones I play, but also now the most versatile. Stoked!
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So I finally got around to swapping that ceramic magnet into the Nailbomb & boy oh boy, is it staying. Everything about the pickup improved immediately & I love everything about it now. The bottom end tightened up, the note clarity & string separation under gain improved, pinch harmonics are much easier to pull off & best of all, after a bunch of A/B listening to recordings, the treble strings really don't seem to be any sharper than they were with the alnico magnet.
So then, the winning combo for the Ibanez RG570 was a C-Bomb in the bridge & VHII in the neck. I A/B recorded & listened back to my other 6 strings (.strandberg* with Juggernauts and a tele with Piledrivers) and I think the Ibby might not only be my favorite for the main tones I play, but also now the most versatile. Stoked!
Really!? That sounds rad!! I contemplated putting a C-Bomb in my Les Paul but the A-Bomb is great for that guitar because a LP needs to sound like a LP at times. haha.