Guitar Weight

[Bradock PI]

I still think that, even in mass produced guitars, there are many, many other variables that might make a difference - different glue in the neck joint, electrics wired differently etc.  It would be very hard to pin tonal differences down to wood alone, wouldn't it?

how about 2 guitars made in the same batch in exactly the same way with exactly the same spec and exactly the same type of wood.  Of course they will sound similar, but they rarely sound the same.

its a combination of everything but when building for a certain tone I start with the woods and construction method and build up from there.... i cant just decide on the string length and gauge

I recal the exact moment I had this driven home to me, rather forcibly -

Academy of sound (previously A1 music, later sound control) manchester, oxford street - they just got a batch of epi gothics in. I had a muck about with 2 explorers.

1 - nice guitar, spanky but with depth, good strong resonance, lively, harmonics came out easy and it had good thunk. liked it
2 - dead as a $%&#ing doornail. Just a wooly boomy sustainless mess.

Checked them over thoroughly - new strings, same action, same batch out of the factory, damn near identical serial numbers even - a few digits out from one another. As close as two gutiars can get to one another and one was pretty good and one was a cricket bat with strings on. The only thing that I couldnt see that could have plausibly cause the difference was the neck join - no way to tell how much glue was in each, and if one had A LOT more and no wood:wood contact in the join that may have caused the difference, I suppose. From the outside they were the same, however.

Conclusion - the same wood species can even sound very different from one guitar to the next. This has born out repeatedly in my experience, comparing on-paper extremely similar guitars, including wood species; they often have rather different sounds.

My whole point is brought out here in that it is the construction of the guitar more than the particular tone wood used that makes a good or bad instrument while the wood will make a difference it will be small unless it has a flaw. The neck and neck joint for example will behave very differently dependent on how well/ what construction but the solid lump of wood at the other end will have a much smaller effect.

It has been shown that a good luthier can get his characteristic sound out of almost any wood even for an acoustic instrument

The reason different mass produced instruments sound different is down to QC variations.

[WezV]

i do think you are completely underestimating the role of the wood.  but you do sound convinced of your reasoning so i would like to know why is it you are so convinced wood plays such a small role?  there is a lot of experience in this thread that disagrees with you.





   

[Lew]

Man, the last couple Legras posted here look damn good(even in parts!!!) but the photos on the site do them no favours!! :lol:

Sorry about that Lew but we now have a new photographer so when I've built and had photo'd enough new stuff for a major update we'll do it.

Look forward to it! 8)

[Bradock PI]

Sorry I think my point got lost somewhere I did not say that the wood would have no effect I said that the effect would be more to do with how it held on to the neck etc. Also I was trying to point out that many characteristics of the wood can be compensated for by changing features and shape.

If the wood type really did have a large influence from its resonance then - thickness, shape, density, velocity of sound variations would make a difference from one piece of wood to another of the same type.

There is a great article on the web by an american luthier on tone woods in acoustic guitars where he points out how the sound is the instrument maker not the the wood, which I read after some random googles but I didn't book mark it and now I can't find it. Search was something around tone woods.

and I do enjoy a bit of playing devils advocate to stir the debate  :D

[MrBump]

Nothing like talking about wood to get the juices going on a guitar forum!

 

I too like to play devils advocate - I think that it's healthy to challenge long held beliefs, our own and others.  It's good to question what you believe sometimes, even if it's patently fact (or, indeed, patently bollocks...)

There was a good point earlier about composite guitars...  the ones that I've heard generally sounded great, very "natural" sounding, despite being (I think) graphite necks with EMG pickups. 

Mark.

[WezV]

If the wood type really did have a large influence from its resonance then - thickness, shape, density, velocity of sound variations would make a difference from one piece of wood to another of the same type

i believe it does. i have used this example before but i  brought two mahogany through neck blanks at the same time a few years ago.  both came from the same supplier, were exactly the same dimensions and looked very similar.  One was twice the weight of the other  (literally, i checked to make sure i wasnt imagining it) and had a very different tap tone.  Whilst both were good for guitars i know they would not sound the same

There is a great article on the web by an american luthier on tone woods in acoustic guitars where he points out how the sound is the instrument maker not the the wood,

thats completely true... part of making acoustic guitars successsfully and consistently is finding your voice... something us electric builders dont have to worry about as much

but as far as i am aware finding your voice as a luthier means understanding the impact the tonewood has and being able to shape it into something that sounds the way you want... rather than saying your construction style is your voice.   thats means understanding and being able to work with the differences in each individual piece of wood, rather than saying the wood isnt important.  Bob benedetto has writen some on this.  he frequently uses woods that some people would say were unsuitable but they still sound like great benedetto archtops

acoustic builders like bob do this by varying the carving and thicknesses on each guitar... tap tuning it throughout the constuction process to maintain consistency in sound... rather than consistency in dimensions... thats how they can control for the differences in woods, even so the differences still exist

electric guitar factories do not do this.  they build things to standard dimensions... which means differences in woods (of the same type) do become an important consideration from one guitar to the next

for what its worth i try not to use the tonewood term when talking about electric woods... its just marketing mojo

[dave_mc]

I too like to play devils advocate - I think that it's healthy to challenge long held beliefs, our own and others.  It's good to question what you believe sometimes, even if it's patently fact (or, indeed, patently bollocks...)

yeah, definitely. :)

[noodleplugerine]

Nothing like talking about wood to get the juices going on a guitar forum!

 

I too like to play devils advocate - I think that it's healthy to challenge long held beliefs, our own and others.  It's good to question what you believe sometimes, even if it's patently fact (or, indeed, patently bollocks...)

There was a good point earlier about composite guitars...  the ones that I've heard generally sounded great, very "natural" sounding, despite being (I think) graphite necks with EMG pickups. 

Mark.

+1.

Straight outta mill's freedom of thought and discussion.

[MrBump]

Nothing like talking about wood to get the juices going on a guitar forum!

 

I too like to play devils advocate - I think that it's healthy to challenge long held beliefs, our own and others.  It's good to question what you believe sometimes, even if it's patently fact (or, indeed, patently bollocks...)

There was a good point earlier about composite guitars...  the ones that I've heard generally sounded great, very "natural" sounding, despite being (I think) graphite necks with EMG pickups. 

Mark.

+1.

Straight outta mill's freedom of thought and discussion.

Really?  Did Mills play a Steinberger..?