Pickups for a new Legra Superstrat (HSH, Holy Divers + Irish Tour?)

[ericsabbath]

I'm gonna buck the trend after reading all of the above:

Cold Sweat - Trilogy Suite - Cold Sweat is my recco. In a swamp ash body, the Cold Sweat PWNS for metal and it is very organic sounding for a ceramic pup; you can dial down the gain and get a very good hard rock tone, tho it will have a lot of push.

the cold sweat is as "edgy" as the miracle man
and will be a lot more in swamp ash
I'd get the diver, maybe a crawler

[Zaned]

If you're considering Holy Divers, give some thought to a Trilogy suite middle pickup.

For a HSS-strat, I was suggested HD-TS-TS (more modern) and NB-IT-IT (more vintage edge).

-Zaned

[gwEm]

the cold sweat is as "edgy" as the miracle man
and will be a lot more in swamp ash

i'm not saying its right in this case, but sometimes it can be really cool to put a bright pickup in a bright guitar. i see what d'n'l is saying.. even if i would go with the HD/SH/HD myself

[Antag]

OK, in response to dave's PM, here are my thoughts (WARNING: essay coming up :))

Let me start by saying that I've never owned an ash-bodied guitar.  So although I've tried a few ash guitars & read some stuff about it, most of this is based on the assumption that the difference from alder is more brightness & lighter weight (i.e. guesswork :))

I see several people have already beat me to it & recommended the HOLY DIVER bridge :)

For the bridge humbucker, I want something with decent (but not modern metal) power, I guess somewhere between medium to medium high output. I want it to be versatile- everything from classic rock up to and including 80s metal (hair metal, shred, and thrash, that type of stuff). I'd like it to have nice warm lead tones too- more guthrie govan or andy timmons than george lynch, if that makes sense. I've currently got a Miracle Man in my V, and while I like its smoothness, I'd prefer something with a bit less output, something which is more organic, and more versatile for the lighter stuff (the MM's a bit too hard-edged for classic rock, for example)- I'm assuming alnico V would be the way to go, but I could be wrong. Decent (or even good!) cleans would be a bonus, but not if it makes the overdriven tones worse. To summarise, then, something warm, organic, clear and tight (but not to the point where it's clinical and sterile) for a wide range of overdriven tones, with nice cleans a bonus, if not a necessity. I was possibly thinking of the Holy Diver, as I think, based on what I've read, it matches closest to what I want, though the Nailbomb and VHII might be worth considering too- could anyone describe the differences for me? Or is there something else in the BKP range which might suit me better?

I read this paragraph & with each sentence was thinking "yes, that's a Holy Diver..."

Actually, it has excellent cleans - really full, warm & dynamic.  You've pretty much described the differences with the Miracle Man exactly.  The HD has a much fuller fatter midrange & can certainly hold its own in the high gain stakes, but it's much warmer & more versatile.

On the subject of tightness, I wouldn't choose it for really technical death metal style playing.  It's certainly not muddy or loose & fine for the flavours of metal you describe, but it's nowhere near as tight as the MM.

If it's any help, here are some clips:
Clean
Clean/Crunch/Heavy
Heavy (actually, the remix on Pg2 is better...)
Heavy
Solo over a clean backing
Mega filth! :twisted:

On the subject of power, I don't find the Nailbomb particularly hot - maybe a shade less outright power than the HD.  But the NB has more aggression to it.  It has this really scything upper-mid & top-end "cut".  It's kinda hard to describe, but I find myself wanting to play more aggressively with the NB & subconsciously hit the strings harder :twisted:  Interestingly, I didn't really get the best out of the NB until I put it in a bright guitar - it sounds much better in my alder strat than my LP or PRS - just seems to bring out more of that "grit".  FWIW, HDvNB has been discussed before but I still say HD bridge for your guitar. :)


For the middle, I say IRISH TOUR

IMHO the Trilogy is the best match power-wise with the HD & if you were going HSS, I'd probably recommend that (really like the Trilogy neck).  But the Irish Tour isn't far behind the Trilogy, it has more of that stratty "pop" to it.

I'm going to disagree with the others & say definitely not the Slowhand.  I have an HD/Slowhand HSS set in my Jackson SL3 & the Slowhand sounds nothing like I imagined it would.  It has less power than the Irish Tour & is more "rounded" sound.  Yes, it still sounds like a single coil, & the neck is lovely for soulful bluesy solos (which I guess you'd expect from a pickup of that name!), but IMHO it's just on the edge of being too low output to balance properly.  I also found that I had to get the middle pickup very close to the strings to get a decent sound out of it - on a typical middle position that's right under where my pick hits the strings for palm muting & I find it kinda gets in the way.

I have one other piece of advice here: if you go HD bridge/IT middle, DON'T coil split the HD in position #2 of the 5-way selector (i.e. wire it so it's the full HD humbucker + IT middle).  That's how I wired my korina strat (because I was too lazy/inexperienced to work out how to split it :)) & was really surprised how much I like position #2.  You can hear it at the very end of this old clip of mine...


The hardest choice is the neck, but I'm going to say VHII because of this:

I've got a cold sweat neck pickup, and I asked Tim for "good overdrive (with the ability to do shred) and decent cleans"... I guess for this one, again, I'd prefer it to be a little more versatile- more like a 50:50 split between good cleans and good overdrive. I'd play everything from jazz, to blues, to classic rock, up to heavier stuff (I'd still like it to be able to handle shred-style solos), so I think I'd want something a little more vintage-sounding, warmer and more organic than the cold sweat

They way I'm reading this is that you like the CS, but you want something with a bit more emphasis on cleans, but not such a departure that you can't do solos as well.

IMHO that rules out the HD neck.  Not that you can't do neck solos under gain with the HD neck.  The HD neck is very bright, clear & sparkly. I think it has one of the nicest clean tones in existence.  But under gain it possibly too bright & clear - doesn't quite have that "ooooo" vowel sound that I really want from a neck pickup for lead work.

Received wisdom on this forum seems to be that the CS neck is the best all round match with high output bridges, but IMO we've all been missing a trick with the VHII neck.  It's about the same power, but has more of a "vintage" voice.  The term "PAF tone" is possibly the most over-used & misused in pickup descriptions, but to me, the VHII is exactly what I understand by the term "hot PAF".

Also, the VHII neck has a really nice split sound.  Although I've never tried it with an Irish Tour middle, I imagine that a split VHII + IT in position #4 would be really nice (or perhaps wire the VHII into a mini switch to give you a choice in positions #4 & #5?)

Anyway, have a listen to my clean neck shootout, also the HD & VHII in my neck lead shootout.

So in summary: Holy Diver bridge, Irish Tour middle & VHII neck are my recommendations.

Hope this helps.  Here endeth the essay... :)

[MDV]

Why no lub for the abraxis and emerald bridges?

They look like they fit the bill....I'm sure we just forget some BKs are there half the time. Well, except PhilK - but I'm sure he has guitars that he's forgotten about, so maybe him too.

[dave_mc]

wow, thanks very much for all the replies, everyone! :)

To go through all the replies:

Will: thanks :) I don't think the mix sound is a problem, on a 5-way switch you don't have the two humbuckers on at once. but if a brighter neck just works better with the darker bridge pickup, it'd definitely be worth keeping in mind, cheers :)

gwEm and dave: that's interesting, thanks. I guess I'll keep the slowhand in mind, then, it sounds like it's definitely worth considering. :)

Ben: Very interesting reply, thanks :). I've heard that the cold sweat bridge is very organic for a ceramic, but is it organic enough? Also the "lot of push" comment has me a bit concerned- I want push when i need it, but not all the time. And is the trilogy suite stratty enough? I already have a cold sweat neck pickup in my other Legra- totally different style of guitar, so probably sounds completely different, but (psychologically, at least :lol: ) I'd probably prefer something different, just for a change.

Eric: yeah, that's what I'm afraid of with the cold sweat bridge pickup. :)

zaned: don't worry, I'll definitely consider it. :)

gwEm (again): putting a bright pickup in a bright guitar would slightly concern me, though. I know where ben's coming from with the suggestion, just I'm a bit worried it might be too much.

antag: no worries about the essay, i always write too much too :lol: thanks very much for that extremely in-depth reply, I'll start checking out all those clips now. I'll keep that in mind about the wiring, too.

"They way I'm reading this is that you like the CS, but you want something with a bit more emphasis on cleans, but not such a departure that you can't do solos as well." yep, exactly. :)

EDIT: i think i know what you mean, regarding the nailbomb's "aggression". I don't think I want that. :)

mark: :lol: yeah, i had kind of thought of the abraxas bridge after phil recommended the neck version- no-one else seemed to think of it (but maybe they just haven't tried it, which is fair enough, i haven't either :lol: ). :)

Just to go through all of that again, to summarise, current suggestions are:

Bridge: Holy Diver, Cold Sweat or VHII. Crawler or Emerald as possibilities.

Middle: Irish Tour, Slowhand or Trilogy Suite

Neck: Holy Diver, Abraxas, Cold Sweat, VHII

Have I missed any there? :lol: Out of those (and based entirely on what I've read, in this thread and others), I'm edging towards the Holy Diver in the bridge, Irish Tour in the middle, and Abraxas or VHII in the neck, but I certainly haven't made my mind up yet.