Sonic difference between Mother's Milk and Custom 62

[Nolly]

Thanks for the vote of confidence WhiteRam :) Though the '69 set isn't going to be making an appearance on the new site (at least not straight away).

[southpaw]

I think it's worth remembering that the comparison of sound is based on all other things being equal. If this will be you main guitar then you can build your sound around that particular pickup exploiting the subtle differences, if you're mixing with other guitars it will all become relative especially in comparison to full on humbuckers.

I could not decide what to pick for my strat and essentially justified it by reasoning I needed the Formvar wire of the '62 to be authentic to 1960 reference guitars like this;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiqW5cTCxlw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWuKQmizGaA&feature=channel

Does my guitar sound exactly like this  - no, because there are too many other factors at play; but does it have the same general dynamic feel (to me) - yes.

The other thing to consider is how much the amp affects the sound. I'm not familiar with the Port City Twelve but does it have a Fender-type basic sound? I can see from their site that it's quite basic - volume and tone so you're quite for limited for tone shaping; even more so without a master volume. The speaker also plays a huge part too. If you have a speaker for overdrive tones it might sound not quite right for cleans.

The clips on Port City website seem to focus on overdrive so I suspect this is the amps best sound. I not saying change the amp, just be aware of it's influence on the underlying sound, not just what tubes it uses but how the tone circuits work, how the pre-amp is stacked. I for one cannot get a good clean strat sound out of many Vox or Marshall, but other's seem to sound fine - but that's also down to the way my fingers work with the strings. 

After many, many years of not understanding what I was looking for I eventually realized the sound in my head was Fender Blackface-type sound. It's easy these days with Youtube to help you 'decide' -in 1990 when I started I had no reference except for the records I listened too with very little info available on how the sound was made (and no Internet Forums to speculate). I think I get close enough with a Mesa Express 5:25; which although not spot on, is incredible flexible - and very portable. Still thinking about changing the speaker though... or getting a 2x12... or another amp  :D

I recall that Jimi used Fender Twin's for clean sounds in the studio; far too loud for home use, but that amp tends to set the benchmark for how strat's should sound in many people's heads.

Anyway, part of the fun of the guitar is the continual hunt for better/different tone - I'm never satisfied for more than a couple of days. Of course, if Tim's going to start bringing out more sets then it only builds the temptation to get another guitar to put them in. :D

[Nolly]

Very true words Southpaw, though in this case edgie has the Apaches as a reference point - any of the 60's style pickups will get him that classic hollower strat sound than he currently has.

In terms of an actual recommendation, I don't think there's any reason to particularly change from the original idea of the Mother's Milks. They split the difference between the '59 and '63 sets, and though they don't stick to a vintage accurate spec ('50s style large diameter magnets, 42AWG plain enamel wind), they deliver that '60s sound wonderfully.
If I might make a suggestion, I would recommend sticking with the Apache bridge pickup currently in the guitar. It's a slightly weaker wind than the MM bridge, but with the AIII magnet is noticeably fatter sounding affair - perfect for a strat bridge position if you're planning on achieving some decent rock tones without things getting clangy or harsh. Tim himself uses this combination in his rosewood board Strat, and it sounds absolutely fantastic.

[WhiteRam]

Thanks for the vote of confidence WhiteRam :) Though the '69 set isn't going to be making an appearance on the new site (at least not straight away).

Hey, I'm just glad to know my ears have a like mind somewhere else in the world!  Thanks for the update on the '69 set, I'm getting a set of those by spring time so that might help towards the R&D, I heard they come with a bridge PU that is off the hook in its DC rating, so I've been real excited about that set as that would make the bridge totally usable and cool, ya and the '69 mid & neck PU's would be scooped a bit too with a big bell on the low E and lots of smack on top.  :)

WR

[edgie]

@southpaw: Yes, the Port City Twelve sounds Fender-ish when clean. I'm not sure how it sounds like cranked since  I haven't got the chance yet to do so. I'm using dirt pedals for dirt tones anyway. About its tone control, it's a wide-sweeping tone control so no problem with that. In fact, I could dial it to sound like how I dial my Flexi clean on the same bedroom volume. The Flexi is a bright amp but I tend to roll down the treble knob to 7 o clock when I use my strat with Apaches which is considered very low compared with other amps. So all in all, my clean sound for both amps are almost the same.

     My strat is my main guitar and I'm also always considering the other factors in play when it comes to chasing tone like youtube compression, studio processing, mic placement, player's touch and skill, etc. but I usually have a general idea on how it would turn out in actual since I've tried quite a lot of gear myself. I'd also admit that by now, given your and the other guys' suggestion, I may likely be going for one of the '63 set since I also want to have a true-to-spec 60's style pickup with just a bit more muscle on it.

Nowadays, the more I play my Strat, the more that I can notice what I want to "correct" on the Apaches. I stand corrected as I stated in my earlier posts that I want it to have more punch, it's actually punchy on the treble strings but the soft bass(alnico III characteristic?) makes it sound a bit too mushy/rounded off for me on the bass strings specially with half-step down tuning. I want to tighten it. Another is the seemingly high hi mids/presence which maybe a natural thing for 50's-style pickups. I think I prefer more low mids over them.

I understand that the updated website will go live on the New Year so Tim's own take on their differences is also something I'm looking forward to.  :D

[edgie]

Just orderd a '63 veneer board set now after hearing the great clips from the new site. Thanks so much guys for your help. :D

[Nolly]

Just orderd a '63 veneer board set now after hearing the great clips from the new site. Thanks so much guys for your help. :D

Great! Look forward to hearing your thoughts on them, I can't imagine you being disappointed.

[Prawnik]

There are actually two '60s style sets though - there's the '59s I just mentioned, which would be for the slab rosewood board era strats that were made up to '63; then there's the '63 Veneer Boards which reproduce the slightly hotter wound coils Fender put in to counteract the brighter sound the veneer board-era guitars had.

No offense intended, dawg, but from what I know of Fender's manufacutring techniques at that time, they didn't think that far ahead.

Even those "average ohm readings" for different years of Strat pickups you sometimes see listed are averages. Individual pickup specs varied widely and there wasn't much rhyme or reason to vintage Fenders. Those guitars (and I love them) were built on an assembly line.

[Tomcaster]

I don't post here too often but let me say that as any other pickup Tim Mills winds the 62s are excellent . Bare Knuckle Pickups are a very good pickup company to me (as is their new webpage) because they clearly show the EQ of the pickup and also state to which guitar type a pickup fits. I had such a great score with my SRV Strat and the 62s. A perfect fit. The Apaches that were in it before weren't that good in comparison!

Therefore I would be VERY cautious to post a clip of Hendrix and say 'the pickups sound like this' because the tone of the pickups is just 50% or even less. The other 50% is the guitar and the pickups need to compliment the acoustic tone of the instrument.  Then you have the amp, the microphone, the positioning of the microphone, the mic preamp etc. It is incredibly difficult to 'hear' the sound of a guitar from a record.

There are far more Strat types than alder/ash vs maple/rosewood. Over the years I have realised the tonal importance of the truss rod type (Strats with the vintage truss rod have more body to the tone), of the bridge (shallow string holes and harder steel create brighter and more percussive tone than deep holes and softer steel), of the lacquer (thin lacquer gives a lot more warmth, nitro makes the guitar breathe and sound more hollow). All this impacts tone. Every one of us needs to develop an ear for their guitar and buy pickups according to this basic voice.
Looking at the 62s, I wouldn't recommend them for a modern Strat like a US Standard, a Deluxe or a MiM Standard because those guitars sound spikey and don't have body - so they are rather a case for Slowhands, Irish Tours or even further. I would recommend them for the MiM Classic 60s replica, for the Knopfler replica, for the SRV replica, of course for the American Vintage 62 replica.

As mentioned, I have a SRV replica and those who played those guitars will agree with me that they sound rather dark. The bright and percussive 62s compliment the SRV Strat perfectly and I would give my guitar to Stevie any day if he still was with us.

[ev1ltwin]

if anyone can hear tonal differences of well-applied lacquers of different chemical compositions in a blind test at a statistically significant rate, i will quit my job

[southpaw]

@Tomcaster Although I agree largely with your point that you must choose the right pickups which compliment your guitar's natural tone I think your further extrapolation is taking it a step too far.

Why would a MIM Classic 60's strat sound warmer that a MIM Standard? There is variability with some general trends (e.g. rosewood generally sounds warmer than maple) but other than that it's not really quantifiable from where or when it was built - the harmonic interaction of any instrument is far too complex. Which is why theoretically identically built guitars can sound different (internal wood structure, moisture, fit tolerances etc).

This was your best advice;

Every one of us needs to develop an ear for their guitar and buy pickups according to this basic voice.
 

The 62's sound great in my warm and resonant '09 Rosewood Neck Deluxe (maybe I got lucky), but would probably slice your head off on a maple board.

Looks like my 62's are close in spec to the new 59 slab boards - very similar resistance and character. I have grey bobbins though - if anybody could really notice this sonically :D

[Tomcaster]

Well any guitar with a top mounted truss rod with a particular wood config will sound brighter and with less body than its counterpart with a vintage truss rod. This has to do with how the truss rod is positioned. The top mounted truss rod was a feature introduced by the Fender marketing in the late 80s to raise user experience (easier truss rod adjustment) and with a little change in tone.