Sonic difference between Mother's Milk and Custom 62

[edgie]

I was suppose to order my Mother's Milk set from the dealer here in Singapore but then I've read about the Custom '62. It seems to me that MM's seem to have more output but as I've learned testing pickups, DC resistance is not the sole basis for a pickups output so I could be wrong with my assumption.

Before the 62 came out, everyone seems to agree, based on my forum search here, that the MM's are the perfect 60's strat pickup for strats with rosewood fingerboards. So now I'm really confused.

For 3 years now, my alder-bodied, rosewood fingerboard strat has a set of Apaches in it. I think the tone is great but I feel it could be better specially last week that I've changed my amp. From a THD Flexi-50 with EL34's matched with a THD 2 x 12 cab, I've scaled down to a Port City Twelve(6v6) 1 x 12 combo(Eminence Cannabis Rex) to suit my lifestyle more and have more room space. I noticed that the new amp tends to accentuate the glassiness of the Apaches maybe because I've lost some bottom frequencies by switching from 2 x 12 to 1 x 12.  Reading the "woody" description of the MM's, I feel that it's the direction I want to go now. I'm looking for more bottom thump and less mids since the Cannabis Rex speaker has a healthy dose of mids on it already.

My playing leans more towards blues rock but I'm looking for a set that will go beyond it and it seems MM's are the ticket as they've been described as great for blues, funk, country, and rock. MM's tones are being associated with SRV/Hendrix(and of course Frusciante) but so are the Custom 62's tones.

So please help me out guys.

Thanks,
Edgie
P.S. I've ruled out the Irish Tours as I'm looking for a smoother attack instead of a gritty one.

[AndyR]

I think you're heading the right direction from what I've read on here.

But I'm also thinking there are some other tricks up Tim's sleeve that might be worth making an enquiry about. There's the set in Nolly's new strat, and I think PhilKing has some experience of them or something similar as well...

As none of these things are standard "off the shelf" sets yet (I suspect they will be soonish), then right at the moment I'd recommend contacting BKP direct for some advice.

[Nolly]

From the sounds of it, the '59 Slab-board set I have is actually the new name for this Custom '62 set being spoken about (mine has an overwound bridge though).
There are actually two '60s style sets though - there's the '59s I just mentioned, which would be for the slab rosewood board era strats that were made up to '63; then there's the '63 Veneer Boards which reproduce the slightly hotter wound coils Fender put in to counteract the brighter sound the veneer board-era guitars had.

The '59s are actually have a brighter top end than the Apaches you currently have - with their A3 magnets the Apaches are smoother than you might expect given their wind. The '63s are a little smoother than the '59s but still brighter than the Apaches. Both do have a significantly woodier sound though. The Mother's Milks sit somewhere between the two, with a fatter low end than the '59 but a brighter top than the '63s.

As far as woodiness goes, any of those three would deliver in spades. Yes, they're brighter than the Apaches, but I'd wager with the reduced mid they would sound less "hard" when you dig in.
If you're worried about brightness, I'd thoroughly  recommend the Sultans - they've got the smooth top end, but with a nice hollowness too. Think John Mayer, but they love some grit too :)

[southpaw]

If you are worried about brightness you might want look at capacitor value/types too. The Allparts Vitamin Q Paper/Oil 0.022uf I have gives me more control than I've ever had; giving me subtle roll off for very useable tones (no loss of definition) down to 2  or 3 on the dial. Compared to some guitar which are dead past 9.

Someone might correct me but I read that the 0.022uF gives a more subtle roll of than 0.047uF or vintage correct 0.1uF. Some sites suggest even lower values.

I picked the custom 62 due to there close approximation in construction of the 1960 slab boards I was using as reference tones without realising these might become the 59 slab board reference now mentioned. The MMs might have been good enough or even better, but I had the choice so I went for closest match physically (e.g. formvar vs enamel wire). How much actual difference does it make - who knows.

I would assume any of the 60s derived sets would be pretty close to what you are looking for - I'm only a newbie but Nolly seems to know what he's talking about

[edgie]

Thanks a lot guys for your replies and suggestions. :)

@Nolly: I'm not actually worried about the extra brightness. In fact, I think I could use some of it to add more "pop" in the notes specially those above the 12th fret. The Apache has fatness on it but I'm looking for more crispiness without going to ice-pick territory. I've read in one of my searches where Tim is describing the MM's as more aggressive than the Apaches. I'm also trying to reduce the glassiness of the Apaches(not really a bad thing and also not excessive but I prefer less of it with my drive tones) which I hope the MM's can compensate with its bassier frequencies.

 Based on your description, it seems it will boil down between the '63 and the MM's for me. I want something slightly hotter as I tend to play with dirty tones more than clean ones. Honestly, my concern with 60's-style pickups is that some of them tend to have that "blanket over the amp" effect. I'm afraid that the Apaches have spoiled me with so much detail and clarity that if I switch to a bassier or "smokier" pickup, I may lose those things in a big way.

@AndyR: I would give Tim an email or PM later. The dealer here told me that the new pickups might be available on the website by January.

@southpaw: I never thought much about caps value as I'm only always using the standard .047uF but I will give the .022uF a try since I also want that subtle roll off thing.

[BigB]

Honestly, my concern with 60's-style pickups is that some of them tend to have that "blanket over the amp" effect. I'm afraid that the Apaches have spoiled me with so much detail and clarity that if I switch to a bassier or "smokier" pickup, I may lose those things in a big way.

Not exactly 60s style pups and I can't compare with Apaches (unless you send me yours for a test :lol:), but the slowhands are not lacking in the "clarity and details" department. I don't think you'll ever get a "blanket over the amp" effect with any of the BKPs vintage / vintage hot strat sets (nor with any BKP at all FWIW).

[Nolly]

Yeah, I think you'll be hard pressed to make any of the vintage/vintage-hot range sound blanketed. Not sure the Slowhands would be good for the woody tones the OP is after - they're just about as full in the mids as the strat sets get!

[edgie]

Ok, I guess I'm just being paranoid.  :lol: I had an experience with a well-known pickup builder's very famous boutique pickup about 3 years ago that was installed in a friend's strat. It's being described as greasy, fat, and perfect for 60's sounds. When I tried it, not only that they don't have bounce on the notes like a strat should but it's as if someone rolled off the tone control to about halfway down. They're just dull-sounding.

Anyways, back to BK pickups, just got a reply from Tim and I think I will have to wait until January to decide because, as what we know now, the new sets of strat pu's might be out by then complete with soundclips. It'll be a tough 2 weeks of waiting for me but I'm sure Tim's work would be another set of killer pickups to choose from so it'll be worth it.

[WhiteRam]

Hi edgie, I know the Custom '62 neck in a Strat like the back of my hand, I live and breathe that pickup 24/7.

Compared to the Apache - the '62 is more woody and hollow, has more cut in the highs and a tighter bottom end, similar output with the '62 having just a wee bit more.

Mothers Milk vs Custom '62 - MMs are hotter & darker, typical of '65 coils.  '62s are brighter, cleaner & more balanced mid range.

If you love that empty vast hollowness of a Strat sound, you'll be nuts about the '62, it's as if there's a reverb going on too, you can totally feel that empty ambience when played through a valve amp and it's awesome.

My Strat is alder maple/maple, the '62 is good in it, but it would be pure heaven if my fretboard was rosewood, there's a wee bit of a top-poppiness that demands a rosewood board IMO.

If you decide to order one or a set, all you have to do is select Apache on BKP order page and type > '62 Spec < in the special instructions box - fyi, the '62 uses an A5 magnet and heavy formvar wire.

Hope this helps ya, as I do relate to all you stated and have taken the journey myself.  :)

WR

[edgie]

Thanks so much Whiteram. Your observation on how the '62 is brighter and cleaner seems to support Nolly's observation solidly:
 "The '59s are actually have a brighter top end than the Apaches you currently have - with their A3 magnets the Apaches are smoother than you might expect given their wind. The '63s are a little smoother than the '59s but still brighter than the Apaches. Both do have a significantly woodier sound though. The Mother's Milks sit somewhere between the two, with a fatter low end than the '59 but a brighter top than the '63s. "

I'm assuming yours is similar to the one he describes as the '59 right? I think we have the same idea of a great clean tone: hollow-ish yet defined with that hint of reverb.

Incidentally, while typing this I just realized(after weeks of looking for a great example) what song do I really want my next set of BK's to sound like: It's Jimi's Gypsy Eyes main riff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvAiZI0WyyM&feature=related
I like this example over Little Wing and Castles Made of Sand because those two songs are not really clean tones and they seem to be too middy for me. IMHO, Gypsy Eyes have that definition/detail and bounce/snap that I want in a Stratocaster.  To me that's what balanced sounds like.

[gwEm]

Not sure the Slowhands would be good for the woody tones the OP is after - they're just about as full in the mids as the strat sets get!

no, you're highly unlikely to sound woody with slowhands.

[BigB]

Not sure the Slowhands would be good for the woody tones the OP is after - they're just about as full in the mids as the strat sets get!

no, you're highly unlikely to sound woody with slowhands.

Sorry - rereading my post I may not have made clear I wasn't advising the OP to get Slowhands. Was just about the "blanket" effect...

[gwEm]

Not sure the Slowhands would be good for the woody tones the OP is after - they're just about as full in the mids as the strat sets get!

no, you're highly unlikely to sound woody with slowhands.

Sorry - rereading my post I may not have made clear I wasn't advising the OP to get Slowhands. Was just about the "blanket" effect...

no you were perfectly clear :) i was agreeing!

[WhiteRam]

All good edgie, glad I could help out.  Yes, my/the '62 custom is what Nolly's '59 is describing, there looks to be a fine tuning of the name as Tim gets closer to an official release of pickups.  The custom '62 was at one time called the # 1's, I forget who here had the first set of these and that was a temporary name too.

You gotta love how BKP puts in years of R&D before finally releasing a product, and willing to wind & sell along the way of development, this company has product and Cahoona's!  Sometimes I have to look at my pickup selector switch to see if I'm on my humbucker or my single coil, because the single coils can be that quiet at times!  I don't use a full pickguard shield anymore, just the control section of the pickguard is shielded.

Ya Nolly's up on things better than I am at this time, and I might add you can count on Nolly's words being strong, my opinions concur with his the more I buy and experience BKP as related to Strats with solid alder bodies.

I listened to your link of Jimi's recording, depending on the sum of your whole signal chain, I think that tone could be gotten with a custom '62/'59, '63, or '69, yes there's a '69 in the wood pile too!  You can't go wrong really, it's hard to hit the nail on the head 1st time around, however (i.e.) I'd trade my '62 for a '69 right before I walked onstage and not be worried a bit.  I say pick the one you're feeling at this point and jump on in! :)

WR

[edgie]

I have a feeling that a '69 pickup(based on most other companies' offering) might be too hot and middy for me but it's good to know that Tim is offering different variations of a 60's-style pickup.  I'm very excited to see the updated website.