Pickups for a 3 pickup Les Paul? - Blues/Rock style

[Jimmycoole]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forums  :D

I recently got my Epiphone Les Paul out of the loft, where it has been for a few years. I've spent the last couple of weeks giving it a little tlc and it's looking most attractive, and now is the time to make it sound awesome.

This is all new ground for me, so I would bery much appreciate any input/opinions that you could give me. I'm planning to have it rewired so it has a master tone and three volume knobs (so the middle pickup is always on, and can be used in any configuration, or on it's own) so I can use the neck and bridge pups like you would on your standard 2 pickup Les Paul. I play blues mainly, but want something nice and versatile so I can rock out when required.

I have made some rather tentative selections:

Neck: Stormy Monday (unpotted) - I love the clips I have heard and this should cover by blues bases very well I would think. I've gone for unpotted because I like to switch between pick and fingers, so the extra dynamics would be good.

Bridge: Mule (unpotted) - These seem very versatile, and presumably can handle gain a bit better than the Stormy Mondays?

Now the middle pickup is tricky for me. I was thinking a Mississippi Queen could be good here, as it would sound great on it's own, but how would it sound blended in with the other pickups? Also, should it be a neck or bridge p90 for the middle? Should it be RW/RP or standard polarity? These are all questions that I have no answer to  :?

Does this seem like a good, versatile setup to you all? Any and all feedback is appreciated.

Thanks

[Kiichi]

Well, I can say that the Mule Bridge will probably work very well for what you want.
Can´t say much about the stormy monday though. Let me through in a VHII for the neck, as it is also very versatile and might be great for you.

In my (most likely twisted) fantasy a p90 middle would sound quite nice...then your axe could be some sort of beefy HSH combo axe...I like that thought!
If you wanne go completly nutshite with that idea, and I certainly would, get push/ pull pots for the neck and bridge PUs, so you can coil split them to have the possibily of creating additional virtual humbuckers (with the correct middle polarity humcanceling even). So you can have the middle + 1 coil neck, or the two inner coils of the neck and bridge together...so many possibilitys. And if you can drill aditional holes go and put a varitone in there, a la Lucille! That would be one hell of a versatile axe then xD

About neck or bridge p90 in the middle, I´d just write / call the BKP team (Tim) and ask if they can do something for ya, they might / should be able to make a middle model.
I´d write them anyways with your wishes and hear what they say, as they know their PUs, believe me.

[Mr. Air]

Some other forum member (can't remember who) has a three pickup Epiphone as well and he has a MQ in the middle position (not sure if it's bridge, neck or something custom) so it has been done before. Sounds like a killer blues/rock setup to me  :D

[Kiichi]

Thinking about the crazy version (p90 middle, push pull potis, varitone) I described still has me riled up and exited mate^^ I would love hear anything in the realm of that. Then again, I am pretty mad....turned a Ibanez S into a vintage rock axe for starters.
But it would be very very versatile...

[Jimmycoole]

Some other forum member (can't remember who) has a three pickup Epiphone as well and he has a MQ in the middle position (not sure if it's bridge, neck or something custom) so it has been done before. Sounds like a killer blues/rock setup to me  :D

That's good to hear  :). I've had a word with Tim and I'm pretty set on the MQ in the middle, and probably the Stormy Monday neck. I'm still debating on whether to have a Mule or another Stormy Monday in the bridge though. I was thinking of putting in a push/pull pot to put the neck pup out of phase and I'm not sure what sort of affect (if any) a hotter bridge pickup will have on the whole Peter Green "quack".

Thinking about the crazy version (p90 middle, push pull potis, varitone) I described still has me riled up and exited mate

Haha it's definitely an interesting idea. I'm not really sure how it works but if I'm going for the out of phase push/pull on the neck, does that mean I won't be able to also have a push/pull to split it (given that I'm having three volumes and a master tone)?

[Kiichi]

Thinking about the crazy version (p90 middle, push pull potis, varitone) I described still has me riled up and exited mate

Haha it's definitely an interesting idea. I'm not really sure how it works but if I'm going for the out of phase push/pull on the neck, does that mean I won't be able to also have a push/pull to split it (given that I'm having three volumes and a master tone)?
Maybe some version of that might be done with the tone poti though...don´t know.

[/quote]
Now thats something someone else has to answer, but as far as I understand the wiring, that would be problematic or impossible (every PU is wired to one poti and that poti can do either split or phase), though I think split brings more possibilitys.

Now the next paragraph is basecally me salivating along in my dreams...so be warned!

I just got that idea from my Ibanez S. There I have a 5way for a HSH config with auto splits (neck, neck outer coil + middle, middle, middle + bridge, bridge) which I like a lot. Now if you replace the switch basecally with the three push pull potis you get many possibilitys (and many wires), if polarity is chosen correct (though some posis will hum). Split set up so that it does the outer neck (for more of a tele sound) and inner bridge coil (watch the correct screw facing and get more strat sound) and there you go.
Think combos like Neck outer coil + middle p90 + full bridge
or neck outer coil + middle p90 + bridge inner coil
or neck outer coil + bridge inner coil
and regulate the amount of each coil!
Think even medium Middle p90 for character + a lot of bridge inner for power and bit + a bit of neck to smoth things out.
Ad a varitone to that even and perhaps some way to do some phasing and you got an ass full of posibilitys!!!!

If it was me I´d might even mix up the PUs a bit (not all vintage-y) to get even stranger stuff out of there, like Aftermath bridge, MQ middle and VHII neck.

This I think says: Never give me such a guitar or I might loose it and kill us all.

[Nolly]

I agree with your idea of a Mule bridge, Mississippi Queen middle and Stormy Monday neck. The out-of-phase sound should still be suitably nasal and thin á la Peter Green.

[BigB]

Now thats something someone else has to answer, but as far as I understand the wiring, that would be problematic or impossible (every PU is wired to one poti and that poti can do either split or phase),

The push-pull (or push-push) thing is just a switch, and is totally independant from which pup is connected to the pot and whether the pot is used for tone or volume. You can have the bridge tone pot splitting the neck pup and the neck volume pot putting both pups out of phase if you want (not a very practical scheme, but technically possible).

Also and FWIW, I'd rather recommand serie/parallel instead of serie/split, specially with low output buckers. The parallel wiring sounds is still hum cancelling, a bit louder than split coils, but still sounds rather single-coilish.

[Jimmycoole]

There's so many options!

I'm not really familiar with the difference between series/parallel (I kind of understand how the signal travels differently, but I'm not sure about the difference in tone). I think some research is required.

Thanks for all the input guys  :D

[BigB]

There's so many options!

I'm not really familiar with the difference between series/parallel

Series is your standard 'bucker tone. Parallel is what you have on the 2nd and 4th position of a Strat with RWRP middle pup, minus the magnet / construction / voicing differences and (coils being closer) the phase issues that give the famous strat "quack" - to make a long story short, it has a definite singlecoilish vibe but a bit fuller sounding and without the hum.

I once had a guitar with serie/split/parallel switches, and always found the parallel position to be way better, but it of course depends on your guitar, pups and tastes ;)

[Jimmycoole]

I see...

Would you recommend having just one of the pickups switch to parallel with a push/pull pot? So I could have the neck volume pot put it out of phase, and have the bridge volume switch the bridge to parallel? Or would it make more sense to be able to switch neck and bridge to parallel? I guess you could get some interesting sounds from one running in series and one parallel?

Thanks

[BigB]

I see...

Would you recommend having just one of the pickups switch to parallel with a push/pull pot? So I could have the neck volume pot put it out of phase, and have the bridge volume switch the bridge to parallel? Or would it make more sense to be able to switch neck and bridge to parallel? I guess you could get some interesting sounds from one running in series and one parallel?

Thanks

Well, depends on how much of a tweaker you are ;)

More seriously: one of my fav settings has long been in-between position with the neck parallel and the bridge serie, but having the option to split or parallel the bridge is often handy too. As far as I'm concerned I've never been a huge fan of the out of phase tone I got but OTHO Peter Green really got something with it.  With a 3 volumes  / master tone setup, the sensible thing (IMHO...) would be to have neck and bridge volumes for serie/parallel switching and the tone for out of phase (since this only makes sense with at least two pups).

This being said, with 3 pickups, out of phase can become a bit of a tricky thing... You could possibly use the middle pup volume pot to reverse the phase of the middle pup so it would be out of phase with both the neck and bridge, but then, if you also have another phase inversion for either the bridge or neck pup inverting the phase of the middle pup will make it in phase with the "out of phase" neck or bridge (huhu.... this is getting a bit complicated :lol:).  Well, I bet you'll have to try out and see what works best for you.

As a side note: you mentionned unpotted pups. From what I heard this is a very interesting option, specially for clean / low gain tones, but beware: there's a reason why pups are usually potted. Even under low gain, at stage volume, you may have hard time dealing with the (very unpleasant) microphonic feedback. Don't know if this might be an issue for you, but I thought it was worth mentionning.

Also: I personnaly find parallel to be a more interesting option than split - at least with the guitars and pups I've had - but don't take me on word on this and try it out with your own gear, hears and fingers.

My 2 cents...

[Jimmycoole]

Hmm... this is interesting.

You know, the more I think about it, the more I think series/parallel switches on the neck and bridge pups would be a better option than the phase shifter. As much of a fan of Peter Green as I am, I'm not sure how much I'd even use that out of phase sound if I had it. There's not much sense in trying to sound like someone else, and this option sounds mighty versatile. I think there would be plenty to play with there without having to go too crazy with the tweaking.

[BigB]

Having the middle pup out of phase might still be an interesting option - or not :mrgreen: but I think it would be worth trying, specially since it's not exclusive from neck and bridge serie/parallel switching (you do have a volume pot for each pup, don't you ?).

Won't obviously give you the PG signature tone but could be handy for more quacky tones.

[Jimmycoole]

Yeah, three volume pots and a master tone. I never considered putting the middle pickup out of phase. I don't think I want to go mad though. A bit of variety is nice, but I think going too crazy is unnecessary.

On another, less complicated note, my order has been placed! thats an unpotted Stormy Monday in the neck, a MQ (neck) in the middle, and an unpotted Mule in the bridge. now we wait... I went for the unpotted option because I like a bit the extra pick dynamics, and I won't be playing in a live situation for the moment. If that changes, I can always get them potted in the future if problems arise.