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Author Topic: Info on Another Forum Stating The Older BKPs are Much Better?  (Read 6129 times)

Philly Q

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Re: Info on Another Forum Stating The Older BKPs are Much Better?
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2011, 06:53:22 PM »
" Scatter winding is exactly that..scattered. There is no specific way or pattern to it. "

This is what I didn't understand. So does this mean that Tim's scatter winding technique is the same regardless of the pickup being wound ? So, is the scatter wind not a factor in creating more bass, less mids etc i.e. he does not use a different wind to create different tonal emphasis ?

A perfect question to add to this thread:

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=25817.0
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BigB

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Re: Info on Another Forum Stating The Older BKPs are Much Better?
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2011, 10:14:34 PM »
A perfect question to add to this thread:

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=25817.0

Thanks a lot Philly, I somehow managed to miss this thread and the 7string interview.
Have: Crawlers, BGF 50/52s, Mules, ABomb, RiffRaff
Had : Slowhands (n&m), Trilogy (b)

Tim

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Re: Info on Another Forum Stating The Older BKPs are Much Better?
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2011, 07:53:07 AM »
Scatter winding is a method of winding the coil wire onto the bobbins/coil formers in a random pattern so that as the  coil of wire is built up each turn of wire and each layer is non uniform. This doesn't create bass, mids , treble etc - remember a pickup is a transducer and translates what comes off the string and cannot generate frequencies that don't exist - however you can extend the frequency range that the pickup is capable of 'hearing' from the string by scatterwinding. As each turn and layer of wire isn't so tight to each other and is crossing at random points, thousands of microscopic air gaps are created in the coil which helps prevent the build up of capacitance(as capacitance increases, treble response decreases). Therefore scatterwinding produces a wider frequency response and subsequently a clearer, more dynamic tone.
It is true to say that no two scatter wound coils are the same - it would defeat the point if they were - and no two winders scatter in the same way. This doesn't mean that the wire can be guided on in any old way as you'd end up in a right mess - tension, how much scatter, coil shape and the way the coil is built up are all crucial factors in producing a good, and more importantly, consistent scatter wound pickup.
I do teach my way of scatterwinding to the rest of the team that wind alongside me and coils are checked rigorously throughout the process for consistency and quality - ultimately by finally play testing every pickup before we ship.
Is my way of scatterwinding the best? Who knows. All I will say is it's the only way I know how to wind, it's the only way I've ever wound and it's the way I and the rest of my staff will always continue to do so as I personally believe it produces the best results.
Tim
BKP - "Wound, made and played the traditional way --- by hand!" Amen.

metalmaniac93

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Re: Info on Another Forum Stating The Older BKPs are Much Better?
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2011, 10:08:26 PM »
Thanks Tim!!!  Excellent information as always!!!
RYb, A-BOMBb/CSn; owned a HD set

Thrull

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Re: Info on Another Forum Stating The Older BKPs are Much Better?
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2011, 01:51:02 AM »
so if the winding is random, how do you know which pickup you're making? apart from magnets and output, what determines the voicing of each pickup and how to you keep them consistant?
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Tellboy

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Re: Info on Another Forum Stating The Older BKPs are Much Better?
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2011, 08:21:52 AM »
so if the winding is random, how do you know which pickup you're making? apart from magnets and output, what determines the voicing of each pickup and how to you keep them consistant?

Presumably wire type/gauge (42 / 43), number of turns, whether HB coils are symmetrical or asymmetrical, baseplate metal, magnet type/size, slug/screw type size ?
John Suhr - "Practice cures most tone issues"
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darkbluemurder

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Re: Info on Another Forum Stating The Older BKPs are Much Better?
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2011, 08:28:22 AM »
so if the winding is random, how do you know which pickup you're making? apart from magnets and output, what determines the voicing of each pickup and how to you keep them consistant?

I don't think it is random as in "let's put the wire in some criss-cross fashion on the coil and see what happens" but rather as in "we use a pattern that does not put the wire turns cleanly side by side". In order to have some consistency between examples of the same model I believe you need a consistent wiring process - even if it appears to be random.

Thanks for the explanation, Tim!

Cheers Stephan

richard

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Re: Info on Another Forum Stating The Older BKPs are Much Better?
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2011, 02:25:12 PM »
Thanks very much to Tim for his input. I'm sure I remember reading that Tim has a great deal of respect for Tom Holmes. This is an excellent article:

 http://www.tonequest.com/pdf_pubs/TQRJan09_proof.pdf

Here's a guote from Tom Holmes:

" Most of my customers want their pickups scatterwound. I’m not sure if it makes a big difference in tone, but it
likely does something. "

Tom appears to know pickups inside out so it surprises me that he appears to be indifferent on the subject of scatterwinding.
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Andrew W

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Re: Info on Another Forum Stating The Older BKPs are Much Better?
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2011, 09:18:18 AM »
... I still use my original winder that I put together almost 10 years ago - nothing has changed at all, I even took the work bench my winder is set into when we moved to Cornwall from Devon 6 years ago!!

Finally we get to the bottom of it, it was the climate in Devon that made the pickups so special in the old days, the terroir of the region is noted for it. Cornwall just doesn't have the right weather conditions for good pickup cultivation...

On a more serious note, I've bought BKPs on and off for about eight or nine years and never has the company let me down in terms of either the quality of their product or, and as important, the quality of the customer care: always taking time to make sure I selected the right pickup for the tones I had in mind. It's no good making the best pickups if people aren't given the guidance to select the right one for them. This dual tack of a great product and great service is what keeps BKP getting my custom and that looks like continuing long into the future.

Kiichi

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Re: Info on Another Forum Stating The Older BKPs are Much Better?
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2011, 12:31:55 PM »
On a more serious note, I've bought BKPs on and off for about eight or nine years and never has the company let me down in terms of either the quality of their product or, and as important, the quality of the customer care: always taking time to make sure I selected the right pickup for the tones I had in mind. It's no good making the best pickups if people aren't given the guidance to select the right one for them. This dual tack of a great product and great service is what keeps BKP getting my custom and that looks like continuing long into the future.

I am a pretty new customer still, but I see it the same way.
The qulity is undeniable, but what really puts BKPs to the next level is the service. It´s a factor that a lot of companys tend to not give much of a $%&# about, which is unfortunate for them.
With this exeptional service one notices that the people really care, which is such a great asset.
Come for the quality, stay for the service...probably for many years.

Also this forum (with all the information, experts and the general tone) is testament to what BKPs does right.
BKPs in use: 10th set / RY set / Holy Diver b, Emerald n / Crawler bridge, Slowhand mid MQ neck/ Manhattan n
On the sidelines: Stockholm b / Suppermassive n, Mule n, AM set, IT mid

richard

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Re: Info on Another Forum Stating The Older BKPs are Much Better?
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2011, 02:05:24 PM »
When I first started thinking about BKs I sent an e-mail about the Irish Tours and was amazed and pleased to get a reply from the man himself. Same when I got my RYs. Great customer service leaves you feeling really good. Other companies I've had great service from in recent years have been Cornford, Anderton's and Hot Rox. I also was treated very well by the Police when I thought my son had gone missing. The worst service I've had (music related) was from Watford Valves. I phoned with a simple enquiry and the guy I spoke to was indescribably rude and abusive.  Guess who won't be getting any more of my custom ?
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Alex

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Re: Info on Another Forum Stating The Older BKPs are Much Better?
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2011, 02:32:44 PM »
True, the Dimarzio service isn't too bad though. Not anywhere close to BKP levels though.
Current BKPs: Miracle Man, Nailbomb, Juggernaut, VHII
Past BKPS: Holy Diver, Trilogy Suite, Sinner, Black Dog