Music Shops Bye Bye ?

[Sailor Charon]

What can be worse is players that openly go to their local shop (because it is well stocked and the staff are up on their stuff), take up the time of the staff and benefit from their training or experience and check out some gear , then rush home to place an order with a box-shifter on the internet to save a few quid.

I wish I had a local shop that was well stocked. Practically everything I've had from there I've had to order. I must admit I got my bass amp off the net after going there, they didn't have it in stock - but I got my guitar amp from there, and I'll get the bottom cab from there.
Currently, they've got a couple of Gibsons (at 300 quid off) but with fat necks...[/i]

[Kilby]

Here is an
So the player goes back to the shop to pick the brains of the staff who do know.
These staff have to be paid wages, the shop rent and light and heating etc etc have to be paid, and sadly they have given all the service and recieved NONE of the money.

So eventually the helpful , well stocked shop will go out of business, the well trained, motivated and helpful staff will end up working in Tescos or in a call centre and you will have nobody you can trust to help guide you with gear[/color]

That's all well and good - But come on, some of us just can't afford paying an extra 30% compared to web prices.

Although I'm always skint I'm with Jonathan on this, what do you get when you buy on the web, errr you dunno till it turns up.

If it's not what you want then what, more expense and effort. With a shop you can make a decision before purchasing. It saves a whole load of time and effort on your part. Unfortunitely keeping a shop stocked with kit that people may or may not buy costs a lot of money. Somebody has to pay for this facility.

I'm sad to see Holiday Music gone as they stocked some real nice stuff and certainly didn't do a lot of low end stuff. They also supported the local music community with studio & production courses (and discound studio time).

Rob...

[jt]

:D I grew up with Holiday Music. It was them that told me & advised me on what type of strings to use & how to judge them all those years ago when i was a spotty kid [ 16 ]

I loved going into that little shop they used to have it was the equivalent of a kid being let loose in a sweat shop !  :D It was a magic place to me, full of little treasures, but over time  i realised it was expensive. PMT in Romford are & way cheaper & yes they do a range of cheaper instruments more so than Holidays ever did. I agree that rampant consumerism is getting bad as we constantly read on this forum about whos GAS`ing for what this week. I dont think Ebay has helped the little local shops either as people can now sell there equipment for more money than the shops will part exchange or buy it of you. As for well trained staff, to be fair Holidays were very good but most music shops i visit are populated with spotty toss pots that no nothing or next to nothing about anything & i`ve actually found myself giving advice to there own customers because the low payed idiot employed by the shop couldn't`t find his arse with both his hands !  :roll:

 :D  8)

[Sailor Charon]

With a shop you can make a decision before purchasing.
Rob...

That's all well and good if you can find somewhere that has what you're looking for in stock. When I was considering an SG3, I would have had to go to Stevenage to try one out. (expensive if you have to go by train) Oh, yes, local shops could order one, but that does kind of commit you... [pointed out to me by the guy at Soho Soundhouse - I was in London for the LGS]

[Kilby]

With a shop you can make a decision before purchasing.
Rob...

That's all well and good if you can find somewhere that has what you're looking for in stock. When I was considering an SG3, I would have had to go to Stevenage to try one out. (expensive if you have to go by train) Oh, yes, local shops could order one, but that does kind of commit you... [pointed out to me by the guy at Soho Soundhouse - I was in London for the LGS]

Soho Soundhouse   , not my favourite store (to say the least), almost as bad as Rockers on Denmark St   :x  :x  :x

I know that feeling only too well I had to travel to Birmingham to get my Rickenbacker & Coventry for my Eggle. Even though I was based in London for an unfair proportion of my time it was still a bit of a hike.

Now that I'm permantly back in Belfast things are worse (as Dave_mc & Blue will verify). Apart from a couple of stores that stock the usual suspects theres almost nothing interesting, and crossing the Irish sea is usually required.

Sometimes you don't have the choice but to buy online (mail order) and hope for the best. But given the choice, I would rather buy from a good shop (even if it is not a local one). It may cost a little more but you stand a better chance of getting something you actually like (Remember that we have all bought utter cr@p in shops despite trying the bloody things out)

Anyway when was the last time anybody bought a guitar or amp in a shop and didn't get a proper discount on the marked price. Cash is a wonderful incentive.

Rob...

[blue]

agree completely.  i have actually bought from local shops when it would have saved me some money to buy on the net.  that might seem crazy, but i try to take a long term view.  unfortunately, my tiny effort probably won't make a big lot of difference!  and as Kilby said, the problem is that unless you want a basic strat, Les Paul or a cheap copy and a Marshall AVT to go with it, none of the shops here have much else.  what they do have generally costs more than it does in shops over in England, never mind on the internet!

[MDV]

Here is an interesting point.....

Tim (very wisely) doesn't allow any of his dealers to list on ebay, which at first disappointed me as I had hoped to list my stock there at the proper price, but I have come to see the wisdom in what he does as sooner or later dealers will slash the odd pound or two off the price till they are barely making a cent on anything that they sell - even to the point of losing money, just to be competitive.

It would also have the effect of making players think that the cost of a BKP humbucker is not £90 but maybe £65/£70/£75 and that anyone trying to sell for more is a money grabbing cheating person that you should not do business with.

So nobody will want to stock the product even though it is the best product available, simply because you cant run a business selling stuff at no profit.

The same is true of prices that are listed on sellers websites.....
Discount too much and you are spoiling things for everyone, including yourself. Ok - maybe offer 5% or free postage , but dont go slashing the price.

What can be worse is players that openly go to their local shop (because it is well stocked and the staff are up on their stuff), take up the time of the staff and benefit from their training or experience and check out some gear , then rush home to place an order with a box-shifter on the internet to save a few quid. And when the gear needs some extra explining because it has a few quirks , the internet seller cant help because THEY DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE PRODUCT - THEY JUST SELL IT .
So the player goes back to the shop to pick the brains of the staff who do know.
These staff have to be paid wages, the shop rent and light and heating etc etc have to be paid, and sadly they have given all the service and recieved NONE of the money.

So eventually the helpful , well stocked shop will go out of business, the well trained, motivated and helpful staff will end up working in Tescos or in a call centre and you will have nobody you can trust to help guide you with gear

On the yellow:

Damn straight. This angers me. People go and exploit the knowledge of folks in music shops (those that actually do know what they're talking about, generally private shops and maybe higher end chains like guitarguitar) then screw them over.....quite infuriating. I feel that knowledgable and helpfull retailers should be given business because:

A. They helped you out: you'd still be scrabbling round websites trying to find your own arse if they didnt. They scratched your back....

B. We need more of them around. Or at least to keep the ones we have. The RETARDS that soundcontrol and dawsons and the like employ help no one. They're only interested in the quick sale, not making customers, and as a result I've seen outright bare faced lies to shift whatever they happen to have in stock at the time, and web retailers are completely unhelpfull, since they're just adverts with a price tag and order button, written with all the bias of a manufacturer.

I tend to think that when you're buying something, youre not just buying the product, youre buying the service. Knowledgable and helpfull service deserves to cost a little more.

[mikeluke]

The small shops are also not helped by the commercial conditions imposed on them by the distributors  (Rosetti do not appear to have a good reputation here) -  must stock a certain number of guitars/value etc - it makes it very difficult for them to compete, especially on the higher end stuff - they simply can't do the volume of guitars that somewhere like GAK can.

[horsehead]

I think that it doesn't help that most stores stock only the 'known' goods. I love my tokai, but the only reason I have that is because it was recomended by a professional guitarist. It was pure coincedence that my local guitar shop had one in stock that looked lovely, played like a dream & sounded good. Since then they've been shut down down by Williamsons going pop & had to start back up again on their own. I now support them the only way I can, by giving them all my business where I can. The only thing as said above is that they have to order goods in just to try sometimes & this limits my sound...never a good thing. It then means having to travel to further & further places just to get items to fall in to my playing



hang on did I just go off topic there? :?:

[Twinfan]

I use my local shop whenever I can.  They all know me and I spend a fair amount in there.  My GAS is bad  :oops:

I will buy stuff online if I can't get it locally, or if the upcharge is too great.   For example....

1)  I paid £415 for my Baja Tele locally but I could have got it from Thomann for around £20 less.  It was worth £20 for the "try before you buy" factor.

2)  However I did buy my Palmer PDI-09 from Thomann as it cost me about £60 and my local place wanted £100.

[ilÿti]

Hmm that's strange. I tend to go to the internet for advice/info and to shops to buy stuff. Store clerks (at least here) don't really know much.

[dave_mc]

Now that I'm permantly back in Belfast things are worse (as Dave_mc & Blue will verify). Apart from a couple of stores that stock the usual suspects theres almost nothing interesting, and crossing the Irish sea is usually required.

yeah, it's not great here. Couple of alright shops, but still not really anything I'd want...

generally anytime i'm on the mainland, i have to waste a day or two's holiday trying a bunch of stuff you'd never see in a month of sundays here in northern ireland.

and then the shop guys here in northern ireland nearly treat you like the bad guy when you don't want their marshall mg...

 

I use my local shop whenever I can.  They all know me and I spend a fair amount in there.  My GAS is bad  :oops:

I will buy stuff online if I can't get it locally, or if the upcharge is too great.   For example....

1)  I paid £415 for my Baja Tele locally but I could have got it from Thomann for around £20 less.  It was worth £20 for the "try before you buy" factor.

2)  However I did buy my Palmer PDI-09 from Thomann as it cost me about £60 and my local place wanted £100.

I work along those lines too- if I'm saving like 50%, or it's something you just plain can't get where I am (e.g. edwards, legra etc.), I'll order off the net. If I'm only saving like £15, I'll buy it here. Of course, I remember shops who have been nice and helpful to me and try to give them my trade (without being totally stupid and buying something I don't want), and don't buy from the unhelpful shops who lie.

EDIT: also, getting a local shop to order in is a bad idea, especially if they aren't a dealer for that company... it ties you in to taking it, plus you can end up with a large wait (i got a shop to order something in for me a while back, ended up waiting about 6 months- vowed never again)...

[Tellboy]

I dunno, it depends on how they are running the business I guess. bad example as they are world renowned, but my local Axery is Manson's Guitars in Exeter, and they seem to be booming. You get a lot of younger guitarists coming in who got the bug last christmas when Mum and Dad bought them a £100 Guitar and Amp set from a catalog, and now they know the guitar they have is bollocks they want something with a bit more quality.

Manson's will always be sailing though I think when you have endorsers like Jethro Tull, Led Zepplin and....eurgh *shudders and wretches but says it anyway*... Muse. A lot of the high end axes Hugh Manson makes are truly inspired. All of *struggles with gag reflex* Matt Bellamy's guitars are pretty frigging awesome with some crazy built-in effects and lasers, and the Mermaid Guitar is just a work of pure art genius.

Greenhalgh's, on the other hand, were Exeter's biggest and longest running music store, but they were run badly, and the owner was a complete bitch who offended customers who would have spent £1000's if only she hadn't opened her big trap. She truly was the poison that killed that business dead I think.

Back in the 60's/70's Greenhalghs was run by "Bill" Greenhalgh and the shop was very different. Bought my Telecaster and 50 and 100watt Marshall Plexis from him. He was a bit of a "character" - whenever he saw you entering the shop with some gear which you were going to part exchange he would immediately appoach you and say "What f***ing cr@p you brought me here?" so you knew you were in for a long haggle to get a good price  :( . I think the 'complete bitch' could have been his daughter.

Happened to be in Mansons some time last year hidden behind one of the pillar displays when the "Mr Manson" came in and was asking the staff how sales were going. Apparently sales had dropped over the last 2 years. It seems that a lot of musicians will come into the shop and try some of the (excellent) gear they have and then go away and buy it on the internet. ( Confession time - that includes me - bought my first BKP set from them and the rest direct from Tim).

Sorry Nadz1lla - can't agree with you on Muse. I think Muse are great but Matt Bellamy's guitars are butt ugly. Looks like they started out looking great and have been put through Photoshop and warped although I'm sure they are awesome to play. This one looks like a hospital bedpan:-


Agree with you on the Mermaid - amazing.

[Nadz1lla]

That's cool, opinions and all, but I'd blame Bellamy, he approved the design I guess, hehe.

Yeah, I think the bitches name was Una, she was pretty ancient too. But she used to offend customers out of the shop. Prime example, my Dad went in with a wad of cash in his hand to buy my Sister a drum kit. The guy had basically sold it to him when Una came in the room. Can't remember what she said to my Dad, but his reaction was "See this cash? You won't be seeing it again, it's going to Project Music around the corner. That's your fault that is..."  :lol:

I would have loved to have gone to Greenhalgh's when Bill was running it.  :?

I do like to buy local if I can though. The only thing I haven't bought from Manson's was my 6 string Bass. But that's because they didn't sell or couldn't get hold of the Bass I wanted. And I bought my Bad Horsie 2 from Mansons instead of online too.

[jt]

:D I suspect like most of you i buy from shops when i can & i wont worry about it costing an extra £20. But if its an extra £200 then thats a different matter  :D

The amount of shops that sell cheap gear is very high as most kids wont get gear of the net but will seek advice from the shops, so it makes sense for the shops to stock the cheaper end of the market. Holidays did a great line in quality gear unfortunatley there price policvy was to be honest ridiculous, I`m sorry i wont pay £3000 for a Nik Hubber i dont care how many Dolphins it has on the headstock !! My problem is that most shops either do lots of cheap or lots of expensive but not much in between.

 :D  8)