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Author Topic: Fretwire- I'm clueless...  (Read 19803 times)

sambo

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Fretwire- I'm clueless...
« on: December 02, 2007, 05:32:06 PM »
Ok so I want to bring my Burny LP up to its full potential over Christmas this year. One of the areas I was looking to upgrade was the frets. I've heard quite a few stories on here about how people have got various fretwire upgrades/changes and how it's really worthwhile. However, I have NO idea where to start in that department really...

Stainless steel? That's for kitchens....?

6100? Isn't that some kind of Peavey.... ?

'Dunlop'? I thought they made cheap trainers....?

What does all this mean!??!?!  :lol:  :lol:  :oops:  :lol:



So, fretwire upgrades; worth the money? If so, what to go for? What varies between different kinds/guages/brands of fretwire?

And also, what exactly is the purpose of a fret dress? In my head it just means "makes guitar play better"...  :lol:

Cheers in advance guys,

sam.


 :lol:

P.S I feel like a right tit for asking such silly questions, but hey... that's what this forum is for... it means I don't have to be embarrassed in the real world... :lol::D

WezV

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Fretwire- I'm clueless...
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2007, 05:48:43 PM »
Are the frets on the guitar in need of a refret?  - if not i wouldnt bother changing them


warmoth has some good info on teh most common sizes and a bit on stainless steel frets

http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/necks/necks.cfm?fuseaction=fretsize

personally i dont like SS frets.  they add brightness which doesnt work for me - some people like that.  they are also much harder to work with when installing

Some fretwire is cheaper and wears easier than others but the dunlop stuff is pretty good - as is most of the fretwire you can buy off a guitar - some cheap guitars come with butter for frets though


after frets have been levelled they lose the round (or somtimes pyramid) shape  on top called the crown.  this needs to be re-crowned.  A fret dress varies depending on who is doing it but when i do it it will include a  levelling, recrowning and polishing - someplaces might not be so thorough so its worth asking whats included.

sambo

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Fretwire- I'm clueless...
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2007, 05:56:19 PM »
Thanks Wez. That clears some stuff up for me.

It's not in urgent need of a refret, but probably will need one in the not-TOO-distant future.

And if brightness is the main attractive property of SS frets I'd probably give them a miss too.

One other stupid question; what about size/'gauge' (is it gauge for fretwire?)?

What do bigger frets actually mean in terms of playability? For example that 6105, "narrow and tall" on Warmoth... what effect does that have on playing?

Cheers again.

WezV

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« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2007, 06:06:34 PM »
i think the main reason most people go for SS frets is because they wear a hell of a lot better so will stay perfectly smooth for longer.  if they didnt affect the sound i would be a bit more sold on them.

really it just affects the feel of how everything plays - i will let other people comment on that because it comes down to technique as well, and i aint much of a player.  I generally just go with what people ask for

sambo

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« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2007, 06:11:12 PM »
Ok cool. Thanks mate.  
 :)

Ted

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« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2007, 08:17:43 PM »
I found SS made no tonal difference but just made bends a lot easier. I would recommend it, very smooth feel. I'm planning another build and that will feature SS frets.

Were the frets on your Burny worn or do you just don't like them?!

FELINEGUITARS

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Fretwire- I'm clueless...
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2007, 08:44:03 PM »
Okay Sambo - I will chime in and add my own take on this
Thanks to Wez for much of the basic info...

Refrets
If you have a guitar whose frets are worn out or very uneven or simply not to your liking, then a refret is possibly in order.

There are wide number of fretwire gauges and types made worldwide
Some is American made, some is Dutch and much is far Eastern

Jim Dunlop wire has a good reputation (yes - the same company that lso makes picks and pedals and all that stuff)

Wire types
Most popular fretwire is made of "nickel silver" , although some players like the stainless (johnny Mac for one) and Warwick have long used a brass wire similar to what church bells are made of (apparently)

The stainless is  very hardwearing, and strings seem to glide over it very easily, but it does sound bright and as far as installing it goes it is much harder work , and  wears out your tools really quickly (which is one reason why we charge more for a refret with it - as we soon have to replace our costly tools after doing work with stainless.)

Wire sizes
Wire comes in a number of sizes - the main differences being in the height f the crown of the wire and also the width of the crown.
There are also a number of differences in the size of the tang bit that goes into the fret slot but that is more for the luthier to deal with rather than the player.
A taller wire will allow you to get more fingertip behind the string when bending which means that you can possibly have a lower action but still bend easily. It also reduces fingertip contact with the board which should reduce playing friction - although some player s may have to adjust technique a bit if they are used to feeling the wood under their fingertips.
Width of the wire can affect the feel and ease of using the wire. It also increases the fret's mass and can aid with sustain to a small extent.

None of this matters if the wire isnt put in well - a poorly done fret job can feel like cr@p no matter what fret size is used. A well done fret job can make even the biggest wire seem no so intrusive as the hand seems to glide over it.

I like using the biggest of wires like Dunlop 6100 or Dunlop 6000 on my own personal guitars as they allow me to play easily, and have an easy left hand technique - its what Tim likes on his guitars too.

Low/Vintage Wire - Dunlop 6230(old Fender & Martin) , Dunlop 6130 (70s Gibson)

Medium wire  Dunlop 6150, Dunlop 6155 (as used by PRS)

Medium Jumbo Dunlop 6110, Dunlop 6120

Tall Jumbo wire Dunlop 6105 (thin) Dunlop 6100 & Dunlop6000

Fret Dressing
A fretdress is the process of getting all the frets on a even level with each other by levelling out any high and low spots. Also requires the frets to be re-crowned to a smooth dome shape to give more accurate intonation and a smooth feel. This process is often required to be able to get the best out of a set-up as it eliminates the high spots that may stop you getting the low action that you wish for.
A fret dress is often required where a guitars fingerboard has srunk a little as wood doesn't always shrink in an even way and this often results in high and low spots on a guitar neck.

We use the Erlewine neck jig as this gives a lot more control over the process and also allows us to simulate string tension on the neck whilst doing a fret dress,
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sambo

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Fretwire- I'm clueless...
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2007, 09:06:32 PM »
Cheers guys!

Feline you pretty much nailed everything I was asking.  :)

Now to head over to your site to check some bound-fretboard 6105 re-fret prices...  :D

hunter

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« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2007, 09:26:26 PM »
I was surprised that my Page-Edwards came with really low frets - perfectly crowned and polished and rounded but quite thin and low, so in the beginning I got stuck on the rosewood when bending, but after a while I adjusted and now I love the feel. Actually I am not getting along so well with high frets, especially if they are so wide on the top (that's the crown I suppose?)

I think I have a case of the one you described, my Les Paul Special might have some bumps due to wood changes.

But it's a bound fretboard, which is why I hesitate to have it done, it will be >200 EURs.
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Philly Q

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« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2007, 09:29:10 PM »
Quote from: FELINEGUITARS
I like using the biggest of wires like Dunlop 6100 or Dunlop 6000 on my own personal guitars as they allow me to play easily, and have an easy left hand technique - its what Tim likes on his guitars too.

That blue (turquoise? aquamarine?) Lion of yours has the biggest frets I've ever seen in my life!  :)

Quote from: hunter
I was surprised that my Page-Edwards came with really low frets - perfectly crowned and polished and rounded but quite thin and low, so in the beginning I got stuck on the rosewood when bending, but after a while I adjusted and now I love the feel.

Sounds similar to my "JB" Edwards, in fact I think all my Edwards guitars have roughly the same size fretwire.

My personal favourite is the medium jumbo on current Fenders - they always feel just right.  But I also really like the 9.5" radius, so that probably plays a part.
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FELINEGUITARS

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« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2007, 09:51:39 PM »
Yes - the turquoise beast does have Dunlop 6000

For price info:
A bound neck refret (includes fret dress and setup) is £150
Unbound is about £130
Some necks need the fingerboard planing /levelling which adds about another £20

Some maple necks may also require the fingerboard to be refinished or re-lacquered
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sambo

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« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2007, 09:58:44 PM »
Cheers for that Feline.

I'm gonna PM you for a quote on something anyway, just to see what my ideal upgrades would set me back.

Just out of interest, what are the perks of lower frets? Does that make it easier/harder to fret a note?

I'm trying to work it out logically in my head but it's really confusing me...


 :oops:

hunter

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Fretwire- I'm clueless...
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2007, 10:04:24 PM »
Quote from: sambo
Just out of interest, what are the perks of lower frets? Does that make it easier/harder to fret a note?


let me give you my 2c on this: lower frets are old fashioned, they aren't for shredders but on the other hand they give you the touch of wood on your fretting fingers, which is a different feel and sound, at least I think it sounds warmer, woodier.

The issue is that if you use too much pressure, it's hard to bend notes.

On high frets, you have to control the pressure of your fretting hand, as like on scalopped fretboards, you can alter the pitch of a fretted note with too much pressure.

I have guitars with different heights of frets and actually prefer it a bit thinner and lower, so vintage style.
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sambo

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« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2007, 10:06:46 PM »
Thanks hunter. After your very eloquent description I would have to say I'm probably more in the vintage-low camp with you too.

Although bends are an aspect of my playing that I have struggled with to some extent, so a higher wire may help with that.

hmmm!

Will

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Fretwire- I'm clueless...
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2007, 10:08:38 PM »
Does the bound fret board price include the fret edge binding thing?
been thinking about the fret edge thing, if its bad or good really.

A lot of those MIJ guitars have fret edge don't they?
so does the binding get made to look like normal binding, or get reformed over the fret after a refret?
slightly off topic maybe, but maybe Sambo's has it