Less bright PAF? Which model?

[JackButler]

First of all, hello!
I currently have a BK P90 that killed everything else I tried! Also have a set of MM's waiting on a build ASAP.
So, I just got a killer r8 flametop, but the thing is bright.
What I want is a basic PAF, maybe a little hotter to get that top end high off. I love deeper lows as well and would prefer a darker toned pickups that's not really "hot". I know that's asking for the impossible! So maybe just a good PAF with a smoother topend or rolled off highs would be ideal.

I've bugged the heck outta Tim the past few weeks with ?'s. so figure I'd ask you guys too!

I am thinking the Mule set or:
Mule in neck, VHII bridge
Or you tell me!

FWIW< I would like woodier or warmer tones. Any suggestions on which mags as well?
Lastly, I need it to clean up with the volume knob as well!
Thanks!

[Machek]

I'm thinking maybe Black Dogs... maybe too high output for what you seem to want...

Mules might do the trick too, like always... :D

[gwEm]

Riff Raffs and VH2s are bright pickups, don't go for those.

[HTH AMPS]

I don't think there is one really, the Black Dog is hotter and quite dark, but the A5 magnet gives it a harder top end than the Mules.

If you go the other way (less output) and try some Stormy Mondays, they might do the trick?

When you say the guitar is bright, do you mean inherently bright or just with the current pickups? What amp are you using? What did Tim recommend?

For a hotter pickup, the Abraxas might just be what you want.

Lastly, all you really want in essence is an overwound Mule.  Maybe discuss this with Tim and ask if he can do you a Mule wound at 9k

[Fourth Feline]

Welcome Jack !

I am only concerned that the open, clear sound of the Stormy  Mondays might just be perceived as 'bright' in certain guitars - despite the otherwise mellow alnico II and low impedance voicing.

I say this, because having had both Mules and Stormys in the same Les Paul, the SMs had an almost acoustic quality, whereas the Mules put some of the mids back in, albeit less emphasised and much clearer than the Gibson pickups that came with it.

Having said that, the SMs did make a 'snappy' S.G. into a sweeter sounding blues machine. The  SMs are very level on the E.Q. though, a facet that can be quite surprising when you first compare them to stock or mid focused pickups. The low end is gentle though, not tight edged or overly percusive - more that nice smooth rumbling growl you hear from a bass guitar.

SMs are a very nice and classic sounding pickup  - and the type that allows a very clear arena for you to bring your own character into. It's not that SMs are 'wrong' for a Les Paul, it's just that they do not impose a tight reign on you at the outset - they require you to select your guitar and amp E.Q with some though. In contrast, I gather the higher gain pickups might dictate the playing conditions from the outset.

I am interested in Heavier Than Hell's suggestion of an overwound Mule - to tune the top end even more than the intrinsic quality of these pickups do already.  



 :D  :D

[JackButler]

Thanks guys!
Yes, the guitar itself is inhernently bright.
It currently has Dr V's in it. WHile they are good pickups, they are not for me. I had another set (with actual 50's long pole mags!) that weren't for me either.
I do truly like the stock 57's in my vos SG, but that's a different guitar altogether.

From my many emails ot Tim, I think I ended up confusing him and myself :oops:  from all my questiosn back and forth, perhaps I need to send a fresh email to him and start over with this, or maybe he'll chime in here!
He ended up suggestion the VHII"s. I am dead set on on any mags other than alV's though.

I am thinking a stock pair of Mules, maybe overwound or what might me a nice mix of pickups?

[hunter]

What about taking Mules and trying 300K or 250K pots?

Apart from electronics, you could experiment with pickup height or long cables (not joking).

However, it's hard for me to believe anyone would want less treble on a Les Paul, for me there just can't be enough ...

[PhilKing]

If you are set against any magnets other than AIV then you will be getting brighter pickups.  I have AIV and AII Stormy Mondays and Mules and was going to suggest that you got an AII Mule set.  The AIV magnet versions are brighter than the AII magnet versions.

[JackButler]

No, not against other mags at all, just really don't wnat the 5's. I was basically just reading Tim's sticky abotu mags, so that's why I wanted the 4's, but I cna do II's as well.

This LP is bright. I've had numerous LP's through the years. A LP guru, well sorta, and myself kinda have a theory that for some reason the actual flametop itself leads to a brighter instrument on these R8's specifically.
Now normally I would sell off the guitar, but this one has "it" for me! FInally found one i love the look of, and mostly the feel. It was reliced by RS and just oozes vibe.

[PhilKing]

I put a set of AII Mules in a bright guitar that I had tried all sorts of pickups in and the sound is great now.  It has all the classic tones and can be bright but not brittle.  If you want AIV with more drive, then the Abraxas set will do it, but they are brighter than the Mules.  I have them in an old Hamer Sunburst where they sound really nice (think Aqualung and you will have an idea of the tone).

[Scotty477]

At the risk of sounding repetetive (from other posts) you could try a set of Emerald pickups.

In previous posts I described them as 'hot' -
This was my error, through basic inexperience. I would now more accurately describe Emeralds as only slightly 'hot' and verging on a dark tone. The neck pup in particular can be best described like this.

I'm finding this tone perfect for 70's style Classic Rock/Blues but I would say that they wont be good for Metal.

Your last point about cleaning up with the volume knob, is exactly what I've been doing a lot with the Emeralds, especially the neck pup.

When I get my act together I'll be putting up more examples of my Emerald equipped Gibson LP.

This is the only decent example I've put out so far....

http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10741

[JackButler]

Sounds good Phil, thanks.
So 2's are warmer than 4's, am I reading that correctly?
It's good to hear they took care of another bright guitar.
I know I want BK's. As I searched and searched for the right p90 on my Jr. A Lollar sounded good, but was too hifi, poppe din the regualr BK 90 and it just started oozing warmth.

[JackButler]

Phil,
I see your in the states, do you order direct  or from a dealer?
Th eones I got before I had to wait ahwile until a US dealer gor orders together, I am afraid I might not be able to find the Mules with 2's here.

[_tom_]

I hear that Crawlers and Black Dogs have a bit of a dark voicing to them, which would probably work well in your guitar? I have Mules in my Epi LP Custom and love how they sound in it, but its made of mahogany and alder instead of maple so its not quite as bright. As always though, its best to ask tim :)

[Henk]

Just chiming in to second Philkings suggestion, AII Mules is the way to go if i read your posts here.

Allthough the SM's would be a good 2nd, the Mules II's will give you a lower end spectrum of the true PAF tone but still are hot enough to be as versatile in combining different styles.

I have AIV Mules, the highs roll off quite well with good tone caps, still keep generally very middy sounding. With a bit of extra effort my unpotted/covered(wax dipped) mules can sound as anything i would like though, theyr just bloody amazing. If you need a very tight bottom end sound or/and an eq balancing available at highs roll off on the bridge, you need mules AIV. The highs of the my Mules are fairly compressed though, so allthough quite punchy i dont have any issues with too much biting/squiky tones. Mine are in a maple necked custom with 500k pots, so i think it would be at least comparable where acoustical brightness is consearned.

Good luck with making your choise.