Neck HB for modern jazz tone

[Mipple]

Hi there,

I'm looking to replace the neck pickup on one of my guitars.  It's a semi-hollow Godin Flat 5 - not quite a 335 clone but that sort of vibe (I tend to string it with 12s if that makes any difference).  The stock pickup doesn't actually sound bad (in fact I usually get compliments on the tone) but when I compare it with my other main guitar - G&L ASAT Special, so tele style with slightly chunkier SC pickups - I just don't feel so inspired by the tone.  Basically I'm looking for a pickup with that magic extra something to it.

As far as the exact tone I'm after - I play mostly jazz but with a more modern, brighter tone than the "classic" dark jazz sound and I'm really only concerned about the clean tone since any distortion is likely to be from the bridge pu.  Ideally I'll still be able to get that dark jazz sound with the tone rolled off in case I get a gig that calls for it but in practice I tend to leave the tone wide open.  I'm not looking to match any particular player but if you think somewhere along the lines of Kurt Rosenwinkel (on The Next Step is probably closest) and Mike Stern you're probably in the right general area.  In fact, the closest I can think of is Ben Monder on his album Flux, but I'd be surprised if anyone's come across it (you can find a few clips from it on his website though if you're really keen - http://www.benmonder.com/music.html ).  I also really like Bill Frisell's tone but the ASAT tends to take care of that as well as the more funk-jazz moments.  To try and put it into words I'm hoping to find something that keeps as much of the clear, well-defined, bell-like sound of the ASAT's SC pickups as possible (I was shocked to discover just how much I loved the SC sound having played HBs up until I got the ASAT since they're apparently more jazz) while sounding thicker - I find my current pickups a bit muddier than I'd like.  I'm not bothered by how high the output is at all as I can boost it before my amp if needed.

Anyway, after all that rambling, having looked through various previous posts I'm guessing that the two best contenders would be a Stormy Monday or a Mississippi Queen.  From what I understand, the MQs are likely to have a bit more of the clarity that I'm after (I suspect that any HB might loose a bit more clarity than I want but the SM looks like it would be the best defined option there) but the question is whether they'd sound a bit too close to the single coils.  Bottom line is that I'm sure they'd both sound fantastic in the Godin but any thoughts on which might be better (or alternative suggestions if you think I've overlooked something) would be very welcome.

Thanks,

Mark

[BigHeavy]

Mark,
If you haven't already, go into the "Players" forum and do a search for Stormy Mondays, you'll find plenty of clips there with a few great jazz examples.  I have a sonic vision close to what you described and I'm leaning towards the SM's myself.  The MQ's will definitely give you a bit more edge but like you say, will probably me close to a single-coil (P90) sound, which I think is what they're designed for.

[Snikch]

Another BK pickup you should consider is the Manhattan. Its a HB sized P90 that has been created for more jazzy applications - under wound to about 6K and in the words of Tim “uses Alnico III magnets and a lower wind for a fat, almost acoustic tone.”

http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1732

[BigHeavy]

Are there any sound clips of the Manhatten available?

[WezV]

i did a couple of video clips with a mule/manhattan combo

These start with the manhattan

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hACMNZzuclQ
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=406FLeqR62o

Obviously not the best quality because it was done on my camera and my cousin is anything but a jazz player.

Lets just say the manhattan is my current favorite pickup for clean stuff... very natural sounding and loses none of the woodiness of the guitar

[BigHeavy]

Thanks for those Clips, Wez.  Do you (or anyone else) think the Manhattan would work well in the bridge position?  I'm thinking a SM in the neck with a Manhattan bridge (on a Washburn HB35) would be an interesting combo.  Thoughts anyone?

[Mipple]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I have listened to quite a few of the clips in the Players forum but there's nothing which nails what I'm looking for (hardly surprising as different people are after different tones even before you consider different guitars, amps and recording setups) - that said it's clear enough that both the SM and the MQ will sound good, it's just a question of which is better for me.  I'm kind of tempted by the P90 route as I've always found humbuckers to be a bit too lacking in definition for what I'm after (but then I've never tried Bareknuckle ones) and I'm after something a bit thicker than your traditional single coils so maybe they're the ideal compromise.  I've enjoyed trying out guitars with P90s but I've never been able to spend a lot of time with one at home with my own setup so I can't be sure.

I'd thought about the Manhattan before but come to the conclusion (from what I'd read so could easily be wrong) that it would be more suitable for a traditional jazz sound than a modern one.  I liked the video clips though - definitely had that almost acoustic sound.  I wonder how much more electric they could sound though as the acoustic vibe would be fantastic to have up my sleeve but I don't think it would be my go to tone right now.

Mark

[Henk]

OK, so putting the Manhatten in the bridge position would give you a bright airy tone usable for jazz, the SM in the neck more for the vintage type of jazz tones.

Could be done i think, i have a Tele set up with a PAF type neck and a Tele vintage single in the bridge, they pair up very nicely. But im personally not keen on jazzy singles sound.

Still when i think about my semi's, and i also have an old MIJ HB35, i think you need something exeptionally tight in the bridge and i dont know if you can get that out of a Manhatten.

Im pretty sure though, either manhatten or SM would sound terrific in the neck pos.

Still, i think something worth considering is a bridge mule(or SM with AIV), its not as high output as you might think and its very very tight and a bit middy, great pup for modern jazz and fusion etc. Rolled down a bit the punchyness is replaced with a nice, slightly hollow round tone. Think more like the Scofield PAF type sound(he rolls down his pickup too), when rolled up again a bit and then getting a bit more fusion type tone like Robben Ford.

Anyway, one thing im sure off, compared to clips, youll get alot more versatility, so im not really worried youll get a great jazzy tone out of any of these pickups mentioned. If you think HB's are often not clear enough, you definately should try the Mules, if not for Jazz then at least for their versatility. Ive had alot of 'clear' sounding pickups which had too much brightness or bite or were not tight enough for clean playing, but these have a nice middy punch and very sweet rounded sustain, just gotta love em.......

Good luck, Henk

[gwEm]

i play a bit of jazz for recreational purposes. i think p90s are very good for this style. if you talk to tim on the phone, he'll be able to suggest a specialised custom set with the wind and magnets needed for the neck and bridge tones you want. think about a RWRP neck for hum-cancelling in the middle position, also i think this gives a really perfect jazz tone.

[tomjackson]

I'm no Jazz player but I think Stormy Mondays would be a good choice as they have great clarity for a HB.  

I've just put a link in the payers section but you can have a look here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2PX9JWqCTw

I'll try and get something really Jazzy up in the next week.