BKP Mules playing Comfortably Numb Solo

[treefella]

I don't know ilyti.

I was curious, so I had another look at the two guitars you posted treefella.  I think they're the same photo flame, but flipped:

]

Hmm, maybe. Next time I see my mate and his son, who owns the other one, I'll compare them side by side.

[Twinfan]

You'll have to let us know what you discover  :)

As you said, quite a little debate and some interesting findings for a fe of us!!!!

[Philly Q]

:idea:  

I wonder if there's a guitar somewhere that has the real piece of flame maple they took that "photo" from?

[Henk]

Well Indy, the japanese just make as much as possible with any wood they can get cheap enough. If theyr out of 'asian' mahagony they just keep on building with whatever is available, they even used to stain basswood.

Then there is still the process of selecting proper tonewoods and maching them together, which any luthier will agree on more or less, is not something of a mayor consearn to the japanese.

I hope there aren't any Japanese guitar builders reading this thread.  :roll:

Just ask a shopkeeper that knows his guitars if your unable to talk to a luthier who has been around long enough. Preferably one who doesnt work in a shop anymore since they are often likely to defend what they are selling.....

By all means the japanese make fine guitars for the money, but theres always a tradeoff.

The top is maple and has a very nice fotoflame trick done to it, sounds just like the 'real' thing though, most 90's MIJ flame guitars were like that.

Err, that's a very sweeping statement.  I've heard of Orvilles with photo flame, but I'm not aware of any other MIJs with them?

MIJ 90's(and some late 80's) Epi, ibanez, Fender's to name bigger japan brandnames, and alot of other brand names like orville and such. Koreans offcourse and so on. Just search for it and youll know.

Yeah, my Gibson's a right pile of cr@p just like yours  :P

Jup, all guitars suck one way or another, were just lucky to have found the perfect pickups so they -at least- sound half decent!

:idea:  

I wonder if there's a guitar somewhere that has the real piece of flame maple they took that "photo" from?

I have some books on Les Pauls, some of the most beautyfull bursts are portraid in them, and none have such a strong flame as these. Meaning the contrast between the dark and light parts. The flame as such doesnt look bad though.

Its like TF said in another thread, if you want a really strong and beautyfull burst LP your likely to pay a very large premium for it. So i actually think the whole fotoflame idea is kind of brilliant, if only they would have taken more care to make it resemble the real thing more i would be into it for sure.....

[Philly Q]

Well Indy, the japanese just make as much as possible with any wood they can get cheap enough. If theyr out of 'asian' mahagony they just keep on building with whatever is available, they even used to stain basswood.

Then there is still the process of selecting proper tonewoods and maching them together, which any luthier will agree on more or less, is not something of a mayor consearn to the japanese.

I hope there aren't any Japanese guitar builders reading this thread.  :roll:

Just ask a shopkeeper that knows his guitars if your unable to talk to a luthier who has been around long enough. Preferably one who doesnt work in a shop anymore since they are often likely to defend what they are selling.....

By all means the japanese make fine guitars for the money, but theres always a tradeoff.

OK, now that you've dismissed the entire Japanese guitar industry in a couple of sentences, can you tell me some companies who consistently mass-produce better-quality guitars at reasonable prices?  Using properly selected, matched tonewoods and all that stuff.  Gibson maybe?  Fender?  PRS (at 3 or 4 times the price)?

[Henk]

There is no such brand Phil, at best you can expect from brands like Gibson that they dont make as many and that they will keep the standard of their brandname high and this way still have people willing to pay the price for that arguably better wood and craftmanship.

I dont only dismiss all japanese manifacturors in this respect, i dismiss all mass production more or less.

Its just that i often find japanese guitars to look great but sounding rather thinnish/dull/lifeless, not all though, and this is the same with Gibson or whichever, but there are less useless guitars among those IMVHO. Also i know Gibson and Fender USA have quite a strict pre-factory tonewood selection. I do think however the production of proper tonewoods gets less and less and compromises to their standard to just keep the factory making guitars is a common factor.

The only way to get a 'really' properly build guitar is to walk up to a good and well established luthier and let him do an estimate for a guitar you want and dont let him hold back on the materials. Or just try loads of guitars and give in to the time consuming hassle to find one that 'really sticks out with head and shoulders'.

So there, maybe harsh but thats what i think of the loads of guitars ive tried.

Some small brands, mind that i dont mean the small brands that come out of the same huge factories, do sometimes make a very good product. Im very eager to try those Gordon Smith guitars of which i have heard very good things. Or at least putting selected tonewoods(or at least they claim that) into a simple guitar design allways seemed the best thing to do to get good value for money.

Maybe it just another disappointment though, but im always curious about what ill find out next, beats doing crosswords :lol:

Anyway, check this video, kind of interesting i think:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThOwKVnk2pQ

[Philly Q]

There is no such brand Phil....

...I dont only dismiss all japanese manifacturors in this respect, i dismiss all mass production more or less.

That's what I was hoping you'd say, because I don't think any of the US brands are any more consistent than the far eastern ones.  Except, perhaps, in the higher price brackets.

Gibson and Fender USA have quite a strict pre-factory tonewood selection. I do think however the production of proper tonewoods gets less and less and compromises to their standard to just keep the factory making guitars is a common factor.

Well, I don't think they're as strict as they should be.  Some of the worst guitars I've ever owned - in terms of timber quality - were '90s Gibsons.  Bodies made of 3+ pieces of mahogany, badly matched and dead-sounding.  Fingerboards made of pale, dry, splintery rosewood - the worst I've ever seen.

Fender are different, they seem to revamp their range roughly once every 10 years, then let standards slowly slip before starting the process over again.  Their QC is better than Gibson's, but again I'm not so sure about the timbers.  In the late '90s, just before they replaced the American Standard series with the American series, they were building bodies out of five pieces of alder or poplar, with front and back veneers to hide the glue lines.  I don't think they do that any more, thankfully.

So yeah, maybe custom is the way to go, if you can afford - or are willing - to pay that kind of money.

[Scotty477]

Maybe the answer is to not buy a mass production guitar.

Avoid Gibson, Fender, PRS and all the Japanese makes and go for something like a Gordon Smith or Patrick Eggle.

Personally I wouldn't get a GS without trying it first but I would have no fears about buying an Eggle before seeing it. Every one I've had the pleasure of playing has been of exquisite build quality and tone.

Hmmm

So why the Hell do I own a Gibson LP and not an Eggle? ......

/em scratchheadandlookpuzzled  :?

[Henk]

Well, I don't think they're as strict as they should be.  Some of the worst guitars I've ever owned - in terms of timber quality - were '90s Gibsons.  Bodies made of 3+ pieces of mahogany, badly matched and dead-sounding.  Fingerboards made of pale, dry, splintery rosewood - the worst I've ever seen.

I do think there is a BIG difference between early and late 90's LP's.

My '76 custom has a 3 piece maple top, still sounds great though which is enough for me at least. My other Gibson solidbodies have a 2 piece maple cap, all of them have a single piece body, allthough i must say im not sure about my 73 SG since it has absolutely straight and very heavy grain, which could mean it just seems like a 1 piece body. When looking trough a magnifying glass i cant find any grain offset at a connection though.

So yes, my '92 gibson standard consists off a 2-piece top and a one piece body. I always though a 1-piece body sounded best and i do check that when i buy a guitar. The rosewood was a bit dry when i got it if i remember correctly though, gave it a good soak right off though

[Henk]

Maybe the answer is to not buy a mass production guitar.

Avoid Gibson, Fender, PRS and all the Japanese makes and go for something like a Gordon Smith or Patrick Eggle.

Personally I wouldn't get a GS without trying it first but I would have no fears about buying an Eggle before seeing it. Every one I've had the pleasure of playing has been of exquisite build quality and tone.

Hmmm

So why the Hell do I own a Gibson LP and not an Eggle? ......

/em scratchheadandlookpuzzled  :?

Yeah that or checking out so many guitars yr head will spin......

Back in the days i tried an eggle, he was making those really small ones, kind of music man luke model but smaller.

Pretty much a daft thing to say, but when i wear a small guitar i just feel a bit naked :lol:

Owell, it all sucks anyway, best plan is to sell everything and take a sabatical year i guess, but what would i do with all that time and no guitars???????

[treefella]

I don't know why some people on this thread seem to be slagging off mass produced guitars - most of the well known and respected guitarists use them.   Also, what's the problem with Jap guitars. Is is a globally well known fact that the Japanese take enormous care and pride in their workmanship, just look at an authentic Samurai Sword or a Yamaha Grand Piano or a Honda motor car and you'll see the build quality surpasses most others. That's the whole point I was trying to make about the Orville in the first place, it's built the same way as a '59 Les Paul but with Japanese quality control which in my humble opinion makes it better than alot of the Gibsons out there. Just listen to the sound clip and judge for yourselves!!

[Scotty477]

I can't speak for others but I'm not knocking mass produced guitars.

I currently own 6 guitars (4 electric and 2 acoustic) and they were all mass produced. Of these 6 only 1 was made in Japan, which is my 84-87 Fender Stratocaster. Both of my acoustics are Korean - Ibanez AE45 and Yamaha CPX900. I have a Samick Stratocaster (Korean), an Epiphone LP (Korean) and a Gibson LP (USA).

What I was questioning was build quality and materials used in these mass produced guitars. This was sparked off by the revelation that your LP possibly has a photo flame top - as opposed to flame maple.

I had to hunt for my Gibson LP. I came across several 'dead' ones along the way and I only just learned that my Epi LP has a basswood body.
My MIJ strat has amost certainly got a basswood body - as has my Samick Strat.

The point I was trying to make was that sometimes it pays to avoid mass produced guitars and go for something that you simply know is going to be built correctly and be made of the materials that you both want and expect.

[Philly Q]

The point I was trying to make was that sometimes it pays to avoid mass produced guitars and go for something that you simply know is going to be built correctly and be made of the materials that you both want and expect.

Agreed, but it's whatever suits the individual.  Personally I'd rather buy three £500 Japanese guitars than one £1,500 PRS or whatever.

I can have fun customising the £500 guitars, maybe sell them on (at not too much of a loss) when I get bored.  But I'd be "afraid" of the £1,500 guitar - afraid of damaging it, afraid that maybe I could've got spent the same money more wisely, afraid that I'm not a good enough player to justify the expense.  What if I spent a couple of grand on a custom build and found what I thought I wanted doesn't actually work for me?

If I was a good player and actually gigging or recording, I think I'd probably try to narrow down my collection to the "essential", better quality, guitars.  And maybe buy a couple more upmarket ones.  As it is, I'm quite happy clumsily messing around with the cheap(ish) stuff.

[Scotty477]

With the exception of the 2 acoustics and my Gibson LP, which I use live, that's what I do.

I did say sometimes after all  :)

[Philly Q]

I did say sometimes after all  :)

Yep, wasn't arguing.  I was agreeing, well sort of - but putting it badly, as usual!  :lol: