Greenbacks vs. V30's with attenuated Tiny Terror

[Armchair Bronco]

I currently have an Avatar 1x12 cab loaded with a Hellatone 30, the broken-in version of the G12H30. This speaker is rated at 30 watts.

I've been thinking about getting a second 1x12 cab loaded with a Hellatone 60. This is the broken-version of the Celestion Vintage 30 rated at 60 watts.

I'm running a Tiny Terror through my 1x12 cab, and I'm strictly a bedroom-level jammer. Even at the 7 watt setting, my wife and kids are complaining that my amp is too loud, so I've been researching attenuators, in particular the THD HotPlate.

If I end up going with an attenuator, I'm thinking that instead of a Vintage 30, maybe I should go with a Celestion Greenback. For Classic Rock tones, I think I'll get better results playing an attenuated TT through a lower wattage speaker like the Greenback (25 watts) as opposed to the Vintage 30 (60 watts).

Does this sound like a reasonable plan?

[hamfist]

For classic rock tones especially, I would go with  Greenback, rather than a V30.

[Armchair Bronco]

For classic rock tones especially, I would go with  Greenback, rather than a V30.

But what about the speaker rating?  I always thought the conventional wisdom was that a lower-rated speaker (e.g. a 25 watt Greeback) would break up better and presumably sound better at lower volumes compared to a higher-rated speaker (like the 60 watt Vintage 30).

[hunter]

it depends very much. I find that a Greenback sounds rather lame at low volume and needs to be pushed hard to bring out some tone, at low volume it's mumbly and lame. V30 is IMO the better speaker for low volume due to it's tighter bass response and overall crispness.

[hamfist]

For classic rock tones especially, I would go with  Greenback, rather than a V30.

But what about the speaker rating?  I always thought the conventional wisdom was that a lower-rated speaker (e.g. a 25 watt Greeback) would break up better and presumably sound better at lower volumes compared to a higher-rated speaker (like the 60 watt Vintage 30).

With a TT on 7 watts, you won't be getting a greenback to break up anyway.
 Personally, it has not been my experience that lower power rated speakers sound better at lower volumes. Remember that the power rating is a MAX power rating, not a suggested amp power match.
  there are so many factors at work here. A big one being whether you like to get speaker break up in as part of your tone. Personally, I don't like it. In all honesty, there isn't a guitar speaker around that will give you that with a TT, except perhaps a blue.
   In the end, I would go for the speaker with the right frequency response for you. It might be rated at 25W, 65 W or even 100W. For example, I've heard V30's sound superb with the right amp, at very low volumes. Personally, I use a 30W amp, set at half power, through two 65W speakers. These are just killer speakers with this amp.
  So, basically, my advice is to ignore the internet folklore that says that lower power speakers sound better at low volumes than higher power ones, because it simply is not true. there are far too many other factors at work.

[Armchair Bronco]

So, basically, my advice is to ignore the internet folklore that says that lower power speakers sound better at low volumes than higher power ones, because it simply is not true.

This sounds like good advice!  :D

I had all but settled on the V30 as the speaker of choice for my next Avatar 1x12 cab, but then when I started researching THD attenuators, I keep seeing occasional references to Celestion Greenbacks...along with all of the other internet folklore and "conventional wisdom" about speakers at low volumes.

Ideally, I'd be able to try out all of my components (TT, cab, speakers and attenuators) beforehand...but that's just not possible.  So I need to make posts, "read between the lines", and use my tonal imagination.

[DeanS]

Speaker wattage aside you may want to consider speaker efficiency and use that to your advantage.

I changed out a V30 in a Cornford Harly for a GM20 heritage greenback (I've only ever liked V30's in a Mesa cab with a recto) which due to the low efficiency allows me to drive the amp harder for a given volume. The crunch tones , to my ears anyway are far superior.

I use a 2X12 Orange cab with a G12H and G12M with my TT and I'm really enjoying it.

[jpfamps]

The "conventional wisdom" scenario often muddies the waters, especially in an area were it is difficult to access any reliable information, such as speakers.

I've been trying to do as much research on this as possible as we are working with a UK manufacture Tayden to try to make our own line of American-style speakers (because Weber VST are v-v-v-v-ery expensive in the UK and Jensens in our opinion are cr@p). Tayden make their own British style speakers by the way and they are very good. Essentially I've learnt more from talking to them than anywhere else (not surprising as they actually make speakers for a living!!). There really is very little decent information on the internet about speakers.

Speaker break up is caused by the cone deforming, and occurs at a certain level of cone excurcion. Cone break up depends on how the cone is made eg weight of paper, 1 1/2 fold or 2 1/2 fold surround, ribbing, seamed or pulp, doping etc. Now if you have two speakers with the same voice coil diameter rated for different power handling with the same cone, they will both break up at the same power levels so a sweeping statement that lower power speakers break up at lower power than higher powered speakers would be wrong in this instance.

Power rating of speakers seems to be fairly random anyway, especially when you are referring to a re-issue, where the original speaker had say a 25 W rating, so the re-issue has to have 25 W written on it.....

Ultimately you can only really decide whether you like the sound of the speaker yourself, so whatever works for you is correct.

[ailean]

I'm in the rather lucky position of owning a TT, a THD HotPlate, an Orange 1x12 & 4x12, and a Rockerverb 50. (ok, maybe a bit more than rather). The 4x12 is loaded with V30's. I've no experience of Greenbacks.

Now my normal set up is the RV50 into the THD into the 4x12, and the TT into the 1x12, but I have tried the TT through the THD into the 4x12.

The TT REALLY does well through the THD, you can switch to the 15 watt channel, crank the volume and the gain and get some really great tones that you just can't get at room levels without an attenuator.

I took the hint from Orange that they think the V30's are the way to go as they use them in both the 2x12 and 4x12, I'm not sorry with my choices, I love them. I think Orange gear (amps and cabs) are a little dark, I changed the tubes in my amps to brighten the sound a little, that's my choice.

I bought all my Orange gear because I love the classic rock sound they give. I'm not saying that you can't do better, but I think you'll be pleased with a TT into V30's.

The HotPlate is a great bit of gear by the way. I'm temped to get a second just for the TT.

[JamesHealey]

V30's have a mid spike which helps the speaker sound better at lower volumes and cut through live.

The Greenies don't they have more bite and compress more when cranked.

I personally have used both extensively and prefer the V30 after much swapping and changing between them.

[Twinfan]

Just one thing I've experienced you may want to consider.  The V30 and the G12H can be pretty bright in a non-closed back cab.  A V30 in a closed back, chunky 1x12, is an excellent choice for a TT.

If your cabs are open I would go for something with a smoother top end.  I'm currently using a pair of Celestion G12T-100s ("Hot 100"s) in my semi open back 2x12 which sound really good.  It's a very underrated speaker.

[AdamB]

I'm selling my 8ohm THD hotplate if you're interested mate

[the_bleeding]

for attenuators, i'd have to recommend the Weber Mass. Its cheaper than a hotplate, and sucks less tone at full attenuation, quite an awesome little toy if you ask me.

[Philly Q]

A V30 in a closed back, chunky 1x12, is an excellent choice for a TT.

That's exactly what's in my Orange PPC112.  I had ideas of putting a Greenback in, but it sounds really good even at low volume (and I'm someone who hardly ever gets to play through an amp, so I'm usually horrified by how bad I sound).

[opprobrium_9]

it depends very much. I find that a Greenback sounds rather lame at low volume and needs to be pushed hard to bring out some tone, at low volume it's mumbly and lame. V30 is IMO the better speaker for low volume due to it's tighter bass response and overall crispness.

Would you say the V10 Vintage also respond similarly?  In terms that is supposed to be voiced much like the V30.



EDIT:  Badcat's THE LEASH looks to be a nice attenuator, especially for someone who is in the states.  Though it does seem a touch pricey.