Author Topic: Bloody intonation (Read 5164 times)

badgermark · « **on:** March 14, 2008, 06:40:36 PM »

Anyone notice I'm making a load of new threads? Finally finished a uni placement and I'm playing my guitars again. Another bar-stewarding problem with a guitar.

My tele won't get intonated properly and always sounds out of tune. For some reason the Graphtech bridge I put on it won't intonate properly.

For example, the low E string (which is tuned to D for this guitar, henceforth being designated D) is miles out by my tuner when fretted at the 12th fret. Properly about 5 or 6 notches above the actual note, and sounds out of tune, even to my cr@p ears. No matter how much I move the saddles it sits at the same rough point, a good whack sharp.

Help me BKP people! And I'll not make a new topic for the rest of the month!

WezV · « **Reply #1 on:** March 14, 2008, 06:50:06 PM »

dont know how you are doing it so this may be useless advice but get the open note in tune first. Then compare the 12th fret harmonic to the 12th fret note

if the 12th fret note is sharper than the harmonic the string needs to be longer so the saddle needs to be moved back towards the rear of the bridge. If its flat the string needs to be shorter and the saddle goes forward

bad frets and old strings are the major causes of discrepancies so make sure they are good first

you can also tune the guitar so the 5th fret note is perfectly in tune and compare it with the 17th fret note. The same rule applies, if the 17th fret note is too sharp the string needs to be lengthened.. this method is a good way of checking tuning consistency across more of the fretboard

badgermark · « **Reply #2 on:** March 14, 2008, 07:05:51 PM »

That's how I was doing it, the harmonic is in perfect tune, but the note at the 12th fret is a mile out. Very almost a quarter tone in fact.

Strings are pretty new, along with the frets (only got the guitar in February), tis a pickle. I even compared it to my other tele, same model and gauge of strings, and setting both saddles up to the same distance never made much difference.

hunter · « **Reply #3 on:** March 14, 2008, 08:16:41 PM »

is it possible your string is buzzing somewhere and generating an "out" overtone? Maybe more neck relief could help ...

Other than that it could be your tele has high frets and you're pressing too hard?

Feline, any help?

badgermark · « **Reply #4 on:** March 14, 2008, 08:33:07 PM »

I thought it might be the frets, really doubt it though, tis new and was fine before I butchered it with a new bridge. Also there is very little buzzing along the neck, less than a normal MIM Fender anyway. I'll loosen the truss rod a little and see if it helps.

It's strange, no matter how much I move the saddles it stays the same amount sharp. This common or is my tuner/tele wonky?

hunter · « **Reply #5 on:** March 14, 2008, 08:36:59 PM »

oh ... might there be one of your pickups too close, creating magnetic issues? this can happen on Strats/Teles.

Tellboy · « **Reply #6 on:** March 14, 2008, 10:40:44 PM »

Quote from: hunter

oh ... might there be one of your pickups too close, creating magnetic issues? this can happen on Strats/Teles.

I agree with Hunter - "Stratitis" - I once had a Rio Grande Muy Grande in my tele (this has very large magnets) and had terrible tuning problems with the bottom E string especially on higher frets (i.e. when strings are nearer the magnets). Cured it by lowering the pickup before I changed to BKPs.

FELINEGUITARS · « **Reply #7 on:** March 14, 2008, 10:43:33 PM »

Did you replace the whole bridge or just the saddles?

Do you have pix of before and after?

PhilKing · « **Reply #8 on:** March 15, 2008, 03:29:15 PM »

Following on from Jonathan's question, could the new bridge have moved the placement of the saddles. What is the scale length now. Also if you measure from the 12th fret to the nut it should be the same as the 12th fret to the bridge.

badgermark · « **Reply #9 on:** March 15, 2008, 04:27:03 PM »

Thanks for all the advice guys, I'll have a play around and see if I can sort this properly.

I'm talking about my fat tele, put in a humbucker sized tele bridge, all the holes lined up perfectly and saddles are in the same (roughly) position.

Lowering the pickup doesn't seem to help.

It's a pain, but the rest of the strings are in perfect tune, but not the low D. Even when the string is tuned to E it works, but when in drop D notes are miles out, even by ear.

To recap, low string is fine when tuned to E, tuning to D can't intonate at all, and it's super noticable.

JustBecos · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2008, 07:33:42 PM »

The only thing I can think of that hasn't been mentioned is that, maybe the nut has been damaged so the string sits in the nut further back increasing the scale length just on the problem string. Not sure If that make sense hope you know what I mean.

Philly Q · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2008, 07:45:42 PM »

Quote from: badgermark

To recap, low string is fine when tuned to E, tuning to D can't intonate at all, and it's super noticable.

Could it be that there simply isn't enough travel for the saddle to be far back enough when tuned to D?

badgermark · « **Reply #12 on:** March 17, 2008, 07:51:38 PM »

Hmm it seems to be fixed. Noticed my low E had a mahoosive action, brought that bad boy down a bit and it's now fine. In tune and everything. Now the challenge is to keep it in tune, by the time I tune up and play a big D chord it's miles out. Oh well.

psy · « **Reply #13 on:** March 18, 2008, 10:39:57 AM »

Quote from: badgermark

Hmm it seems to be fixed. Noticed my low E had a mahoosive action, brought that bad boy down a bit and it's now fine. In tune and everything. Now the challenge is to keep it in tune, by the time I tune up and play a big D chord it's miles out. Oh well.

Perhaps a heavier string on the drop D might help too.

_tom_ · « **Reply #14 on:** March 19, 2008, 09:19:48 PM »

I'm having the same problems with my LP. E strings harmonic is perfect but the fretted 12th is a mile off.