Cracks around SG neck joint

[Philly Q]

I spotted this Tokai SG on eBay today.  I'm not considering buying it, but it raised a question.  It has a bit of cracking in the finish around the back of the neck joint, which can be seen quite clearly in one of the pictures:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290222185471&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=019

I have exactly the same thing on one of my own SGs.  It's nowhere near as bad, in fact it's nearly invisible, but it's there.  It's just along the back of the joint, not at the join itself but a millimetre or so away.  There's no cracking at all at the sides or front of the join.  It doesn't affect tuning stability (in fact it's rock solid).  I've tried bending the neck (very gently) and there's no more "flex" than in any of my other SGs.

Now, the guy on eBay seems convinced it's just a cosmetic thing, but something must have caused it to crack at that point.  Could a bit of rough handling in shipping cause a crack without loosening the joint itself (seems unlikely)?  Could the finish crack because it's settling over a glue line rather than wood at that point?  I don't know about the USG-100, but mine has some kind of poly, not nitro, finish.

I know SG neck joints are notoriously fragile, but should I be worried about my neck falling off?  I'd be interested to hear any thoughts, especially from Jonathan and Wez (I know you hate many things about the SG design, Wez, but put it to one side for a minute   ).

[HTH AMPS]

I've seen lots of SGs like that - I think it's purely because of the neck joint design.

If I was to take a guess, I'd say it was the wood shifting due to the seasons and causing the crack in the paintwork.

Lots of bling on that guitar - will the strings vibrate at all with three hulking PAFs under 'em :?  I'd prefer SG juniors myself from a player POV, but that white SG does 'look' cool.

[WezV]

to me it could be from rough handling but most likely it will simply be  a bit of natural movement in the wood.  

probably just be natural expansion and contraction over time or from the lacquer shrinking as it does

i wouldnt worry about it unless the guitar had stability issues... whcih i suppose it does because its an SG :P

[Philly Q]

i wouldnt worry about it unless the guitar had stability issues... whcih i suppose it does because its an SG :P

I knew you wouldn't be able to resist!    :lol:

So not necessarily a problem with the joint, then?  That's reassuring.  :)

In terms of natural expansion and contraction over time/seasons, mine's only an '07 and I'd guess the eBay one's not much older... but I suppose it did start life in Japan, in a very different climate.

[WezV]

i am willing to bet gibson saves all its perfectly quartersawn mahogany for necks so its unlikely the grain orientation in body and neck will match - not that it needs to really

different woods expand and contract in different ways, for instance on multilam guitars with different woods you will eventually feel the joins, again - not really a problem

well your gibson is all mahogany  but i would guess the neck is quartersawn and the body isnt - when they expand and contract they do it in different ways/directions

Lets say the neck on your gibbo is quartersawn and the body is flat sawn and imagine that mahogany shrinks more across the grain than along it.

That means the grain in the neck is stacked side by side but the grain in the body is stacked vertically.

As the neck shrinks it looses width, as the body shrinks it looses thickness... whats going to happen at the point where they meet?


OK, thats a vast oversimplification of a very subtle effect so nobody take it as gospel or anything or start worrying about it.  You may notice i include lots of different types of wood in my guitars well aware of the fact the joins will become more noticable as the guitar ages... it really aint a problem although its enough to put me off using ebony laminates in a neck because that shrinks more than most

[Philly Q]

Thanks Wez, useful info.  :)  

I suppose in a way it's almost like filling the cracks in window frames and skirting boards when you redecorate - and they always reappear eventually.

Incidentally, it's not one of my Gibsons, it's a Tokai - so the wood's behaviour seems to be consistent with the one on eBay.

[Jonny]

Could it be to do with atmosphere as well? Just on the general topic of cracking. Or is it the atmosphere that affects the wood, then expands, etc.s that makes the crack?

Just like putting boiling water into a cold glass it could crack (or something like that) Is that the same case here?

[FELINEGUITARS]

The crack runs from around the neck heel and up onto the cutaways - it's only just visible on the treble cutaway
I think that the guitar has fallen or taken a knock.
I suspect that there is more than enough tenon still glued to hold it indefinately but that crack will always be visible.
I think that the crack may go a little deeper than the lacquer but maybe not right through.

But it's £385 - take your chances maybe?

[Philly Q]

But it's £385 - take your chances maybe?

Someone bought it already, on a £365 best offer.  But I wasn't considering buying, it just prompted me to ask about my own guitar.

I think that the guitar has fallen or taken a knock.
I suspect that there is more than enough tenon still glued to hold it indefinately but that crack will always be visible.
I think that the crack may go a little deeper than the lacquer but maybe not right through.

It's good to know that even if it is cracked it could hold indefinitely.  In my pessimistic way I was thinking damaged neck joint = rapid disintegration and goodnight Vienna!  :roll:  

But anyway, mine's not as bad - it's impossible to even capture the crack in a picture.  I think it may really be just the lacquer.  I think I might run a little superglue over it just to seal it.

[Fourth Feline]

to me it could be from rough handling but most likely it will simply be  a bit of natural movement in the wood.  

probably just be natural expansion and contraction over time or from the lacquer shrinking as it does

i wouldnt worry about it unless the guitar had stability issues... whcih i suppose it does because its an SG :P

No complaints here Wez, mine has remained stable and it's finish / neck joint intact for 32 years  ( and counting ) -  8)

[Tellboy]

The crack runs from around the neck heel and up onto the cutaways - it's only just visible on the treble cutaway
I think that the guitar has fallen or taken a knock.
I suspect that there is more than enough tenon still glued to hold it indefinately but that crack will always be visible.
I think that the crack may go a little deeper than the lacquer but maybe not right through.

Yes - If you look closely the crack does continue into the treble cutaway - I would have been very concerned about this. The neck on my 1964 SG broke exactly like that with the crack running across the back of the joint and into both the cutaways. Definitely taken a knock.
Although I dearly love SGs I have always worried about the neck joint. You basically have a long "lever" (neck)  which is glued into a relatively small joint (partly restricted by the neck pickup) in a relatively thin body. If you apply any pressure to the end of the "lever", or knock it, it must put immense strain on the joint.  One of Les Paul's main reasons for not endorsing the 'new Les Paul' was because he was concerned about the 'less stable' neck joint. (Les Paul necks join body 3 frets lower).

[Tellboy]

I notice that later (1966) SG Customs had a stronger neck joint (joins body at 19th fret, not 22nd). The ebay Tokai had the original weaker joint.

See paragraph 3 of this link:-
http://www.kellyindustries.com/guitars/gibson_sg_custom.html

[Philly Q]

Yeah, I'd say the current Gibson SG neck joint appears much stronger than the early '60s style, even though the tenon doesn't extend beyond the end of the fretboard.  I don't think playability is any worse either.

The neck on my 1964 SG broke exactly like that with the crack running across the back of the joint and into both the cutaways. Definitely taken a knock.

Dare I ask if you managed to get that repaired successfully?  :?

[WezV]

isnt that the much abused 1964 SG with a frankenstien style repair :(

[Tellboy]

isnt that the much abused 1964 SG with a frankenstien style repair :(

 :oops: Yes - afraid so. Really upsets me when I remember what it originally looked like (see my avatar). I was putting it in the back of a van (did n't have a case for it at the time) and it slipped out my hand, the head took the fall and it just 'folded' - the string/neck pickup height went from 3mm to over 3cm. Unfortunately there were no Feline or WezVs around then where I lived and I needed it in a couple of days.