Mr New Here

[opprobrium_9]

I still would rather promote the Totnes School of Guitarmaking course.  I still think this Bailey gig is a bit gimmicky, it all seems very suspicious to me.  Electrics in 5 days?  I don't think so.  Archtops in 20 days?  Certainly not! :shock:  The Totnes school is the real deal man.

what is the wood you used on the top of the first guitar?

[GuiTony]

 :o  :o  Was that built using knowledge/techniques from the course, or something different entirely?

75% was based on what I learned on the course, 25% was made up as I went along ... a bit of trial & error, a bit of reading "books", and a bit of help from other guitar-making forums (incl people like Wez).

I still would rather promote the Totnes School of Guitarmaking course.  I still think this Bailey gig is a bit gimmicky, it all seems very suspicious to me.  Electrics in 5 days?  I don't think so.  Archtops in 20 days?  Certainly not! :shock:  The Totnes school is the real deal man.

what is the wood you used on the top of the first guitar?

The wood is Amazique.  It's absolutely beautiful - it looks pretty good in the photos but I'm sure a better photographer would get better angles, lighting etc to show the wood off properly.

Re the course.  The blog and the photo gallery show that we really do start with planks of wood on day 1, and leave with finished guitars on day 5.  No magic is involved, just hard work, long (10-12 hour) days and a lot of Mark's attention and guidance - though this could be the magic ingredient!  Mark himself can make a guitar in a day - and does so at some of the guitar shows.

But ... you certainly don't learn all the tricks, tips and techniques that I imagine the Totnes course covers.  You don't cover all of the "whys" and technical design details.  Nor do you spend hours every day in the student cafe, or hours every evening in the local pub  .  Seriously though, if I'd had 3 months and £x thousands, then I'd have loved to do the Totnes course, but that's just not a practical option - whereas taking 5 days to do Mark's course was very practical.  

For me, the first course taught me that I really could build a guitar (I didn't believe that I'd be capable), and gave me some basic woodworking skills and confidence.  On the second course, I asked enough questions, and learned enough of the techniques and design principles, to be able to repeat the exercise in my own workshop ... as the photos show.  And now I've started build #2  :D

[sambo]

GuiTony- Cool! One more Q if you don't mind kind sir- how much of the equipment/tools e.t.c. did you have already, how much did you need to buy in? In other words, was the total cost £70, or was that the guitar materials specifically?

 Electrics in 5 days?  I don't think so.  Archtops in 20 days?  Certainly not! :shock:  

Surely this here chap is evidence that verifies those time-frames though, man? :)

I still think this Bailey gig is a bit gimmicky, The Totnes school is the real deal man.

Have you been on either?  

[GuiTony]

GuiTony- Cool! One more Q if you don't mind kind sir- how much of the equipment/tools e.t.c. did you have already, how much did you need to buy in? In other words, was the total cost £70, or was that the guitar materials specifically?

This time last year (ie before Bailey Course #1) my DiY toolkit consisted of a hammer and a couple of screwdrivers.  A slight exaggeration, but only a slight one.  

After the course, I bought a 10x10 workshop, and spent "enough" insulating it and kitting it out with general woodworky stuff and guitar-building specific tools.  Luckily, a good friend of mine wanted somewhere to store his bandsaw (really really useful) and bench planer (didn't use it on build #1), which saved me some money.

Other main tools required - a decent router with good template cutters, a pillar drill, long augur drill bits, sharp chisels, rasps & hand planes, lots of sandpaper of different grits, decent soldering iron, cordless drill, and all the specialist fretting stuff.  I got a cordless L-Ion Dremel from EvilBay last year, and used that a lot for the fine work.

TBH, I haven't added up what I've spent on tools (and won't, just in case my wife ever stumbles across this forum   ) but I can now build guitars a lot more cheaply (£76.88 for the Tele) than I ever bought them ... so it'll actually save me money eventually ... :P.

[ilÿti]

The LP-DC is gorgeous. I'm not a fan of the pickup configuration either, but hey that's the beauty of making your own guitars. You don't have to even consider what others think.

[opprobrium_9]

 Electrics in 5 days?  I don't think so.  Archtops in 20 days?  Certainly not! :shock:  

Surely this here chap is evidence that verifies those time-frames though, man? :)

Just seeing it isn't enough.  I would have to sit down and play it, hear it, inspect it closely.  From personal experience i know that when starting out, even if you have woodworking skills beforehand (as i did), it takes long hours every day.  I put in 8-10 hours of solid work everyday for 3 months to get my guitar done, no compromises, no gimmicks, but working until perfection in detail could not cut it.  It had to be beyond that: accuracy within a fraction of 1 mm - and i am not even joking.  If you are going to build a guitar you can either do it one of two ways.  First, you can make something that very well looks like a guitar, and pretty well plays like a guitar, but is only just built for those functions at the most basic of levels.  Or, you can really BUILD it, work out every single detail to flawless perfection to the threshold of one's personal sanity.  I choose the latter.

I still think this Bailey gig is a bit gimmicky, The Totnes school is the real deal man.

Have you been on either?  

And yes, i have been on the Totnes course, and the product of my time there is in this thread here:

http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9239

We worked to a level of precision that is beyond what any CNC machine can produce.  While a CNC machine will come within .3ish mm of the desired goal, we operated entirely at .1 for every desired goal - and guess what, you get precision to a level that most custom builders do not afford you.

Given my experience in the matter, i can very well speak for precision's sake and how long it should take a beginner.  This is not to say there are some more proficient than others and finish faster.  But for a beginner i would say no less than 1 1/2 to 2 months (if they are EXTREMELY proficient) to make a REAL quality instrument with unparalleled precision.  For the master builders, well, that varies of course.

I am not discounting your work GuiTony.  The guitar certainly LOOKS nice, but now that i am an experienced builder, i say that is not enough.  I understand that the Totnes course is impracticable for most.  I understand that Totnes is not in everybody's budget range, and also not realistic for everyone given the time schedule it demands, but nonetheless you are going to get a far better quality instrument in 3 months of concentrated work than you are in 5-10 days.

[sgmypod]

thats pretty....are you making for yourself or to sell on?

[opprobrium_9]

thats pretty....are you making for yourself or to sell on?

for now for myself

[noodleplugerine]

 Electrics in 5 days?  I don't think so.  Archtops in 20 days?  Certainly not! :shock:  

Surely this here chap is evidence that verifies those time-frames though, man? :)

Just seeing it isn't enough.  I would have to sit down and play it, hear it, inspect it closely.  From personal experience i know that when starting out, even if you have woodworking skills beforehand (as i did), it takes long hours every day.  I put in 8-10 hours of solid work everyday for 3 months to get my guitar done, no compromises, no gimmicks, but working until perfection in detail could not cut it.  It had to be beyond that: accuracy within a fraction of 1 mm - and i am not even joking.  If you are going to build a guitar you can either do it one of two ways.  First, you can make something that very well looks like a guitar, and pretty well plays like a guitar, but is only just built for those functions at the most basic of levels.  Or, you can really BUILD it, work out every single detail to flawless perfection to the threshold of one's personal sanity.  I choose the latter.

I still think this Bailey gig is a bit gimmicky, The Totnes school is the real deal man.

Have you been on either?  

And yes, i have been on the Totnes course, and the product of my time there is in this thread here:

http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9239

We worked to a level of precision that is beyond what any CNC machine can produce.  While a CNC machine will come within .3ish mm of the desired goal, we operated entirely at .1 for every desired goal - and guess what, you get precision to a level that most custom builders do not afford you.

Given my experience in the matter, i can very well speak for precision's sake and how long it should take a beginner.  This is not to say there are some more proficient than others and finish faster.  But for a beginner i would say no less than 1 1/2 to 2 months (if they are EXTREMELY proficient) to make a REAL quality instrument with unparalleled precision.  For the master builders, well, that varies of course.

I am not discounting your work GuiTony.  The guitar certainly LOOKS nice, but now that i am an experienced builder, i say that is not enough.  I understand that the Totnes course is impracticable for most.  I understand that Totnes is not in everybody's budget range, and also not realistic for everyone given the time schedule it demands, but nonetheless you are going to get a far better quality instrument in 3 months of concentrated work than you are in 5-10 days.

Calm down Opprob.

I don't want to be rude but come on - The arrogance is nauseating.

Just because someone doesn't do it your way doesn't mean its the wrong way.

I also think its a bit rash to call yourself an experiences builder - I doubt half the builders here who have built more guitars than you have would call themselves experienced.

[MrBump]

Ref:

http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11917

 :)

[sambo]

Ah silly me- course you've been on the Totnes course! :)

Anyway, I suppose my question should have read: "have you been on both courses" really. Haha.


But anyway- my only real point was that the guitars built by the 'students' on the Bailey course, are evidence that archtops/electrics CAN be built in the time-frame they claim. Now the quality of a guitar built in such a time-span can be disputed obviously, but that's another matter entirely.


:)

[WezV]

i reckon mark has a pretty good system set-up.. sure, making a guitar from scratch in 5 days is quite a mission but his customers are obviously happy if they go back year after year.   tony is the first to admit it possibly isnt the best way to learn how to make guitars.

tony, i have also been meaning to ask to see the NSG's

[GuiTony]

Just seeing it isn't enough.  I would have to sit down and play it, hear it, inspect it closely.  

Absolutely.  I wouldn't expect anyone to assess or judge a guitar merely on the basis of a few photos.

I put in 8-10 hours of solid work everyday for 3 months to get my guitar done, no compromises, no gimmicks, but working until perfection in detail could not cut it.  

I'd accept 3 months if you're spending at least half that time studying and understanding design concepts, understanding the different properties of the various woods (and combinations thereof), etc, etc, etc.  But, even a "perfect" guitar should be obtainable in 2-3 weeks (plus paint spraying and hardening time).  Not 3 months.  Surely??

It had to be beyond that: accuracy within a fraction of 1 mm - and i am not even joking.

mmmmm .... has anyone ever called you "obsessive" ??     What aspect of the build was genuinely critical to within a fraction of 1mm?  I accept that a decent fret job will have the frets sorted to that sort of tolerance, and getting a perfect finish will involve removing scratches that might have a depth of 0.01mm, but - seriously - what else do you do to that tolerance?

The guitar certainly LOOKS nice, but now that i am an experienced builder, i say that is not enough.  

Absolutely agree with you - and you don't have to be an experienced builder - an average player will soon judge!  I built this to play, not to look at, and all of the guitars from Mark's course meet the same criteria.

nonetheless you are going to get a far better quality instrument in 3 months of concentrated work than you are in 5-10 days.

Don't agree with you there (am I allowed to disagree as a noob?).  I'd say that after 2-3-4 weeks (depending on experience and level of teaching/guidance) you'd reach diminishing returns - ie you'd spend time changing or finessing stuff, and actually making it worse ... then spending more time putting it right again!

I didn't come here to get into an argument about "this is better", just to say "hello"   :?

[GuiTony]

tony, i have also been meaning to ask to see the NSG's

PIcs, or in the flesh?

[sambo]

Forgot to say- thanks for the info on the tools! :)