Amp Options

[Doadman]

Many of you will know I've been looking at amp options recently and now I have 4 distinct routes to consider. I play an Ibanez RGT42 with Bareknuckle pups through a GNX3000. At the moment I only play in the home so can't go too loud but would like to play live at some point. Good quality sound at all volume levels is important. I want the amp to be reliable, not need tweaking all the time and let the GNX really shine as I think the superdisc patches are basically very good but I do want it to sound more authentically tube-like, hence the added tube pedal on most of them. Real tube warmth seems to be essential for the best tone as far as I can make out as I heard a Spider Valve the other day that was really good and I KNOW my GNX can sound better than Line 6. I don't mind paying the most expensive if it is clearly the best but I don't want to waste money either if I don't need to.

[LazyNinja]

I didnt vote as I have no experience with any you mentioned but what about that Atomic Reactor amp? Heard good things about them.

[Doadman]

Dammit!!! It didn't show all of the options on the poll for some reason. There should be a fourth option of an Atomic 50w 1 X 12 at about £490

[hunter]

If it's about making all the sound in the GNX and just amplifying it I would either try out several options, also maybe look at used Fenders and try some or a Vintage Modern Combo (can be had around 500GBP), or if not trying is preferred, go with the safe option which would be the Atomic.

[hamfist]

I haven't voted, because I'd suggest going for a Powerengine 60 2x12, and probably leave out the EHX pedal.
   I have tried out almost all of these options in the past, when looking for amplification for modellers (Vox and Line6, not Digitech unfortunately).
  I would definately advise that you stick clear of anything with a tweeter, like keyboard amps, or powered monitors, or anything similar. Tweeters will produce a harsh brightness, that I always found impossible to control.

  Also avoid any traditional guitar amp. Putting a modeller's signal through another pre-amp, however clean it may be, just does not bring out the best from the modeller. A dedicated tube rack power amp, even the Marshall 20/20 into a cab (or cabs) is, I believe, the very best solution but possibly beyond your budget. If you went used, you would be looking at much the same money. Something like - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/sterio-Valve-power-amp-peavey-classic-60-60_W0QQitemZ140229072344QQihZ004QQcategoryZ68247QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem , plus a cab or two. This would also give you the easy option of running in stereo should you want to.
  IMO, the Atomic and the PE60 are also excellent for the application you are wanting.
  I have owned an Atomic 1x12, and have a friend with a PE60, so I do have some experience of both.
   I would say that one is not better than the other. I relly don't think the PE60's lack of tubes makes it any worse than the Atomic. I'm a great believer of using as big a cab and as many speakers as I can. More speakers = bigger sound.  Here is one area that the Atomic and the PE60 differ (apart from one being tube and the other SS). An Atomic has a speaker out, for a traditional guitar cab. Stick a good 4x12 on this baby, and you will be pleased at the results. The PE60, is basically cheaper than the Atomic, so you could afford a 2x12 to start with. But the line out from the PE60 is only that, though  - a line out ..... to feed another PE60, or other powered device. So you are limited in what extension devices you could use, and most of these would have tweeters (except another PE60).

  Another factor is that, overall, I believe that a PE60 would be more reliable than an Atomic. My Atomic never had any problems, but I have heard a lot of reports of faults. Tom King at Atomic is helpful at sorting these out, but it could take weeks/months.
  SO my vote would be for, ideally, a tube power amp and a couple of cabs (whatever size you can cope with). Second would be a 2x12 PE60. All without the EHX Blackfinger. I have run modellers through tube pedals and pre-amps, and I don't think they really add anything to the mix. You might like one of Radley's Harmonic converger's. I never used one, but many folks do swear by them.

[bobthemerciful]

I haven't tried any of the above either. The other guitarist in my main band uses a Marshall 20/20 through a 4x12 with his pod pro and gets a great sound out of it IMO.  On the third video down at http://www.myspace.com/seventhsonuk  he's playing all the rhythm parts through it live.

[Doadman]

Response to the poll has been poor but I am grateful to those who have responded from this and other forums. Trying out all of these options side by side is impossible so I need to rely on some forums to a degree. Based on the feedback I've received and research I've done myself I have concluded that a keyboard amp isn't what I'm after as the tweeter will be too intrusive. I suppose the same may be said about the power amp and speakers. That leaves the Tech 21 and Atomic.

Both are highly regarded and despite the lack of tubes in the Power Engine, many seem to feel that there isn't much to choose between them. That would suggest that trying to add real tubes to the chain would be a wasted effort on my part yet it can't be denied that many people swear by tubes. This seems to be something of a contradiction so I think my first course of action is to try a Power Engine with and without tubes in the chain. As I can't try an Atomic my decision may have to be based largely on how impressed I am with the Tech 21. If it doesn't quite do it for me I'll try the Atomic and if it's OK, I'll simply save the difference.

[FELINEGUITARS]

I have an Atomic 18w that is great but I find that I dont use it so much as I have too many amps so may be selling it. (£300 + shipping)
It is bloody loud too - especially for home use

[hamfist]

Response to the poll has been poor but I am grateful to those who have responded from this and other forums. Trying out all of these options side by side is impossible so I need to rely on some forums to a degree. Based on the feedback I've received and research I've done myself I have concluded that a keyboard amp isn't what I'm after as the tweeter will be too intrusive. I suppose the same may be said about the power amp and speakers. That leaves the Tech 21 and Atomic.

Both are highly regarded and despite the lack of tubes in the Power Engine, many seem to feel that there isn't much to choose between them. That would suggest that trying to add real tubes to the chain would be a wasted effort on my part yet it can't be denied that many people swear by tubes. This seems to be something of a contradiction so I think my first course of action is to try a Power Engine with and without tubes in the chain. As I can't try an Atomic my decision may have to be based largely on how impressed I am with the Tech 21. If it doesn't quite do it for me I'll try the Atomic and if it's OK, I'll simply save the difference.

  A reasoned response Doadman. However I don't quite understand why you have discounted a tube power amp and guitar cab(s). The way you have written it, it almost seems like you think they will have tweeters.

[Doadman]

A tube power amp would be wonderful but they do tend to be expensive and for reasons I can't readily explain, I'd like to buy new gear.  The Mesa 50/50 is VERY expensive and even the Marshall 20/20 is £370 and I haven't started to look at speakers then! This is why I've looked at ss power amps.

Perhaps I should clarify exactly how I want the sound to work. My user presets are loaded with a variety of amp patches that I like from the Supermodels disc. Through my headphones I love the sound of all of them. Some are a touch digital maybe, hence I was thinking of some kind of tube in the chain but generally I really like what I hear through the headphones so generally, that is the sound I want reproduced in an amp.

Does that help in terms of what would work best for me?

[hamfist]

A tube power amp would be wonderful but they do tend to be expensive and for reasons I can't readily explain, I'd like to buy new gear.  The Mesa 50/50 is VERY expensive and even the Marshall 20/20 is £370 and I haven't started to look at speakers then! This is why I've looked at ss power amps.

Perhaps I should clarify exactly how I want the sound to work. My user presets are loaded with a variety of amp patches that I like from the Supermodels disc. Through my headphones I love the sound of all of them. Some are a touch digital maybe, hence I was thinking of some kind of tube in the chain but generally I really like what I hear through the headphones so generally, that is the sound I want reproduced in an amp.

Does that help in terms of what would work best for me?

  Yes the power amp/cab option is expensive. For what you want, the PE and the Atomic will do what you want.

[Doadman]

Despite the evident popularity of the Atomics, there seems to be a general consensus that any advantage over the Power Engine is marginal. As a result, I am so far not convinced that the Atomic is worth the extra.

Plenty people seem to talk about keyboard amps but they also all seem to complain about the tweeters dominating things too much so that's out too.

That leaves a power amp like the Samson Servo 200 I mentioned and some speakers. The only problem at this stage is that I have no idea what speakers would be best for it in my budget so I'm in dire need of some help in this area. I am working on a total budget for the amp and speakers of about £300 and the Samson Servo 200 can be bought for £99. That is assuming the Samson amp would be the best option; I'm open to sugestions in this area too as I'm well out of my comfort zone.

I know it's now down to either the Power Engine or power amp and speakers and I also know that I will try them both myself so what I really need now is ideas on which combination of power amp and speakers I should be testing to get the results I'm after within my budget. Suggestions gratefully received.

[hamfist]

Despite the evident popularity of the Atomics, there seems to be a general consensus that any advantage over the Power Engine is marginal. As a result, I am so far not convinced that the Atomic is worth the extra.

Plenty people seem to talk about keyboard amps but they also all seem to complain about the tweeters dominating things too much so that's out too.

That leaves a power amp like the Samson Servo 200 I mentioned and some speakers. The only problem at this stage is that I have no idea what speakers would be best for it in my budget so I'm in dire need of some help in this area. I am working on a total budget for the amp and speakers of about £300 and the Samson Servo 200 can be bought for £99. That is assuming the Samson amp would be the best option; I'm open to sugestions in this area too as I'm well out of my comfort zone.

I know it's now down to either the Power Engine or power amp and speakers and I also know that I will try them both myself so what I really need now is ideas on which combination of power amp and speakers I should be testing to get the results I'm after within my budget. Suggestions gratefully received.

  On that budget, I'd go for the Power Engine. Even if you can get a power amp for £100. Only £200 for a cab and speakers, will mean you are only talking about a 1x12 and will certainly be gettng nothing better than the PE-60.

[Doadman]

I've just returned from trying the Power Engine and it was an interesting experience, certainly convincing me that I shouldn't buy something unless I try it first.

Overall the Power Engine is a good amp. It seems solidly built, has plenty power, looks good and does a decent job of reproducing the sound of the modeller. There were however some issues. Putting the controls on the back as opposed to the top or front of the amp is just silly. The amp itself doesn't exactly reproduce the sounds the GNX produces but it is fairly close. I found the sound to be a little 2-dimensional and tinny, tending towards sounding a bit more digital than it appears to be through headphones. I tried a couple of things to try to liven it up but nothing really worked. Firstly I experimented with the Speaker Compensation but either on or off, it had little effect. I also connect to the amp via a Presonus TubePre which surprised me in also having very little effect on the sound. Some patches did warm up a bit but it was marginal at best.

The shop didn't have the PA gear in stock that I was looking at but I tried a Mackie SRM450 Active PA speaker. At £379 it is somewhat over budget and was only a 12" speaker where I'd been told a 15" works best but it was certainly noticeably better than the Power Engine. At first I thought it was awful but realised I'd forgotten about speaker compensation. This time it did have a dramatic effect and the resulting sound was much bigger in every way. Now my guitar sounded much fuller and warmer, far more like the sound I get through the headphones. I didn't try the Presonus on the Mackie.

So while I still haven't bought an amp, I am significantly closer to knowing what I want. The keyboard amp is out and sadly the Power Engine is also out. The Atomic looks good but there is no way I can try it before I buy so that is out too. That leaves me with a PA system and as I haven't looked into this in depth before, I have a few things to now consider.

1) Should I go with a power amp and passive speakers or active speakers?
2)In a budget of £300 - £350 should I get two speakers to go stereo or simply get a better quality single speaker and play in mono, as I would have done with the Power Engine?
3) As I know absolutely nothing about PA speakers, other than being able to confirm that the Mackie was good and built like a tank; what are the best ones to look at in that price range?

As always, your help is greatly appreciated

[hamfist]

The shop didn't have the PA gear in stock that I was looking at but I tried a Mackie SRM450 Active PA speaker. At £379 it is somewhat over budget and was only a 12" speaker where I'd been told a 15" works best but it was certainly noticeably better than the Power Engine.


 I have a few things to now consider.

1) Should I go with a power amp and passive speakers or active speakers?
2)In a budget of £300 - £350 should I get two speakers to go stereo or simply get a better quality single speaker and play in mono, as I would have done with the Power Engine?
3) As I know absolutely nothing about PA speakers, other than being able to confirm that the Mackie was good and built like a tank; what are the best ones to look at in that price range?

As always, your help is greatly appreciated

The SRM450 is definately a 15" speaker BTW. The SRM350 has a 12".
  I played a Tonelab quite extensively through an SRM 350 in the past. I thought it was pretty good, but could never quite control the harshness I got from the tweeter. If I completely covered up the tweeter it was OK, but otherwise just too bright and harsh whatever I did.  This was with a tonelab though, so your GNX is a different animal.  The SRM's are certainly built very sturdily, and will take a fair bit of abuse. Nothing particularly better in that pricerange for active monitors IMO.
  I'd also take a good look at Sgmypod's SAI slave head in the Second's out forum. It's a good price and paired with a nice guitar cab could well be a great modeller rig. Ideally you would, of course, be able to try it out before any commitment to buy.
  GOing back to your 3 questions, there is no inherent benefit in getting a powered speaker cab, o a separate amp and cab(s). They both have pros' and cons. It'll all really come down to what sounds best to your ears.
  For your budget, personally I would always go for a better quality mono system, rather than a stereo setup. Stereo just isn't very important to me. If you get to play in a band, no-one will notice either. I'd always go for the best tone my money could buy, and this is pretty much always going to be a mono system.