Intonation adjustment on an LP Junior

[Philly Q]

For the last few months my favourite guitars have been my Epi LP Juniors.  I think the one-piece wraparound bridge/tailpiece definitely contributes to the tone, and I'm not particularly bothered by the limited intonation adjustment - it's close enough for my considerably less than pitch-perfect ears.  And after all, it's not so different from 99% of acoustic guitars.

However, I've been experimenting with replacing the heavy zinc bridges with aluminium ones, so I have to set the intonation, and I'm wondering if anyone has any tips.  Do you set the E strings and hope for the best with the other four?  Or maybe go for A and B?  Are there any time-honoured techniques for doing this?

[hamfist]

Intonation on a guitar is always a compromise, and always will be due to the nature of the instrument and how it is played.
 I have spent hours and hours, and hours over the years trying to set intonation, using various methods, and never got it near enough for my (admittedly rather sensitive) ears.
  The basic technique is to use a tuner and, for each string in turn, get the 12th fret harmonic and the fretted 12th fret note as near as you possibly can.
  Earlier this year I took a guitar in to a tech for a fret repair, and while it was in with him, I asked him to do a full set up, including the intonation.
   Anyway, the long and the short of it, is that he got it waaaay closer than I ever have. I shall now always use him when setting up a new guitar now.

  I'll admit that intonation is one of my real bugbears though. It really niggles me if it is out. I guess I've probably taken up the wrong instrument really, as distorted electric guitars are so sensitive to the slightest of "out of tuneness".

So come one you guitar techs - what are the magic techy secrets for setting intonation ?

[WezV]

jonathans will probably come in here and say something about an earvana nut which is something i still want to try and certainly looks interesting

So far i have found my fanned fret guitars to be the easiest to set intonation on and i am wondering if that was down to all the maths i did to get placement right or if the improved tension helps a lot as well

Anyway, for philly - its a compromise.  If its staggered i would start off intonating E to E, if its a very old school non-staggered stop bar style bridge i would intonate A to B first and adjust from there.   i havnt worked out a system for these to do these quickly- i tend to play them in a bit and adjust a lot till i am happy with how it sounds at the chosen action

[Philly Q]

Yeah, it's the non-staggered type - basically a stop tailpiece with a pair of grubscrews, set at an angle, '50s stylee.  So the angle of the bridge takes care of most of the intonation, but leaves problems especially with the G string.

As I mentioned, it's not an "issue" as such, I find the intonation pretty adequate, just wondered if I was missing any tricks for setting it up more easily.  With a regular fully-adjustable bridge I can spend hours fiddling about trying to get the intonation just right, so I quite like the simplicity of not having those options.  :)

[hamfist]

jonathans will probably come in here and say something about an earvana nut which is something i still want to try and certainly looks interesting

Ah yes, an Earvana nut. I will have to get one of those, at some point.  I did try, a couple of years ago. I paid for the nut, direct from Earvana's website. Never received it though. They claimed to send another one, which also never arrived. I sort of gave up after that. There isn't really an alternative nut on the market that does the same thing though, so I think I'll just have to bite the bullet and get one at some point.

[FernandoDuarte]

Hamfist, there is a luthier in UK that do a compensate nut himself, he told me each guitar he get, he make a special nut for it...
http://www.guitarsetup.co.uk/TheFunkyNut.php

[FernandoDuarte]

http://www.guitarsetup.co.uk/string+tree.php
Looks nice!


Phill what about buy one of those wraparound like this:

They would probably be even easier to tune (I guess, never worked... have someone here experienced with those?)

[Philly Q]

Phill what about buy one of those wraparound like this:

They would probably be even easier to tune (I guess, never worked... have someone here experienced with those?)

I have had that type of bridge before, Fernando - they're the type Gibson used in the '60s.  They work best with the bridge in a straight(ish) line, rather than at an angle like the '50s version.  

Ironically, that bridge causes its own intonation problems because the "lightning bar" on the top is compensated for a wound G string.  Gibson do now make them with compensation for an unwound G (I had one on my Pete Townshend SG), but I don't think anyone sells them individually.

'50s style, angled:



'60s style, straight (for unwound G):

[hamfist]

Hamfist, there is a luthier in UK that do a compensate nut himself, he told me each guitar he get, he make a special nut for it...
http://www.guitarsetup.co.uk/TheFunkyNut.php

Thanks very much Fernando. I might well follow that lead up.

[hunter]

what about this wraparound variant from tonepros?

It could fit your diagonal bridge placement and still offer room to fiddle back and forth

[WezV]

kinda takes away the pureness of a typical junior bridge though - which might be just what philly likes about them

i quite like these as a compromise
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Electric_guitar,_non-trem_bridges/Wilkinson_Gotoh_Adjustable_Bridge_Tailpiece.html

still a very solid design in keeping with the originals but at least has some level of adjustability

[Philly Q]

kinda takes away the pureness of a typical junior bridge though - which might be just what philly likes about them

Exactly right, Wez  :) !   It's not that I'm looking for perfect intonation, just looking for ways of setting up the one-piece bridges as accurately as possible, given their limitations.

I've got no objections to the standard tune-o-matic/stoptail setup, but I like wraptails even better.  I've tried most of the different types of adjustable bridges and they're very good, but I've come to the conclusion simple is best.  I like the look, too.  

The TonePros bridge is excellent, but I prefer the very similar PigTail:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Electric_guitar,_non-trem_bridges/Pigtail_Aluminum_Wraparound_Bridge.html

It's made of aluminium rather than the heavy zinc (or brass, or whatever) the TonePros is made from.  I find that sometimes the aluminium bridges sound better than the zinc ones, sometimes not - it depends on the individual guitar.

The Gotoh/Wilkinson units are very good too, but I find you have to scratch the underside of the adjustable saddles to make them rough so they won't slip.  And - highly annoyingly - they have a 49mm string spacing which is far too narrow.

[Kilby]

I have a Wilkinson bridge on my Berlin with a single adjustable section for the G & B strings and I have to say that it does it's job very well indeed.

This is the wraparound version http://www.fretkingbitz.com/PreviewHTML/P_shop.html with the version Wez pointed out just below it.

[hunter]

kinda takes away the pureness of a typical junior bridge though - which might be just what philly likes about them

i quite like these as a compromise
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Electric_guitar,_non-trem_bridges/Wilkinson_Gotoh_Adjustable_Bridge_Tailpiece.html

still a very solid design in keeping with the originals but at least has some level of adjustability

Nice one!

And also half price...