Author Topic: Riff Raff Limitations (Read 9804 times)

tonberry_king · « **on:** September 06, 2005, 08:43:31 PM »

Okaaaaay, I *think* I may be decided on a pair of Riff Raffs, or possibly one and something else like a Mule, but I was wondering what the limitations are to these pickups? I mean, I guess that you can't get the same kind of power as you could from the Warpig's but how different would it be? Could I not just turn the volume up a lot more to achive a similer effect?

I'm just a little nervous about spending so much money at once, especially when I'm just starting college agin =P

Tim · « **Reply #1 on:** September 06, 2005, 08:48:28 PM »

Power is limited in comparison to a Warpig but then agai n so would most pickups :D
The Riff Raff is a gorgeous pickup(I've a set in the bottom neck of my 6/12) if you want something that will growl in a blues rock way....and into a cranked Marshall it'll do some mean hard rock tone too.
The Warpig is voiced at a different genre and for different applications....sure it does have a great clean tone but overall the tone is thicker and doesn't have the transient attack of a Riff Raff.

tonberry_king · « **Reply #2 on:** September 06, 2005, 09:04:07 PM »

Transient attack? I have no idea what that means :( I'd be using them primarily for hard rock and a distortion pedal with help me get as much gain as I needed, right? I liked the sound of when you said they had more of an open grind as opposed to the super saturation of the Warpigs.

crispsandwich · « **Reply #3 on:** September 06, 2005, 09:16:09 PM »

I played a BKP equipped Tokai with a Riff Raff in the bridge and it smoked. It was through the 'Metal' channel of a Line 6 Spider 2, and it sounded incredible for heavy riffage. So clear. I think with a distortion pedal you'd be more than sorted.

Tim · « **Reply #4 on:** September 06, 2005, 09:51:17 PM »

Sorry I was getting too verbose..............put simply the Riff Raff is bright, crunchy and is a PAF with attitude......the Warpig is a much thicker sounding beast altogether,with serious power.

tonberry_king · « **Reply #5 on:** September 06, 2005, 10:31:38 PM »

Heh, don't worry, it's good for me to learn the fancier terminology! Just to clear it up though, a thicker sound would be... bassier? Or just more of everything?

If I wanted to put a Riff Raff in the bridge and pair it with something else, what's the highest output I can use? I imagine that having a high output pup along with a relatively low output one wouldn't work so good. Though I wouldn't know, I'm just assuming here :P How high a DC could I get for the neck pup?

Bainzy · « **Reply #6 on:** September 06, 2005, 11:13:46 PM »

Quote from: Tim

Power is limited in comparison to a Warpig but then agai n so would most pickups :D
The Riff Raff is a gorgeous pickup(I've a set in the bottom neck of my 6/12) if you want something that will growl in a blues rock way....and into a cranked Marshall it'll do some mean hard rock tone too.
The Warpig is voiced at a different genre and for different applications....sure it does have a great clean tone but overall the tone is thicker and doesn't have the transient attack of a Riff Raff.

you've got a 6/12? awesome! :twisted:

rinse_master · « **Reply #7 on:** September 07, 2005, 09:01:08 AM »

Quote from: Bainzy

Quote from: Tim
you've got a 6/12? awesome! :twisted:

There are a few pics in the gallery, a couple of Tims other guitars too...

carlaz · « **Reply #8 on:** September 07, 2005, 10:32:53 AM »

Quote from: tonberry_king

If I wanted to put a Riff Raff in the bridge and pair it with something else, what's the highest output I can use? I imagine that having a high output pup along with a relatively low output one wouldn't work so good. Though I wouldn't know, I'm just assuming here :P How high a DC could I get for the neck pup?

I'm no expert, but based on what I've learned so far from this forum, you can pop a pretty high output pickup in the bridge and pair it with something much more restrained in the neck; at worst, you may have to play a little with raising/lowering the heights of the pickups to get them balanced. But HJM has a guitar with a Miracle Man in the bridge and a Stormy Monday in the neck, while I've seen a least a couple of happy reviews on Harmony Central from people with the like of a Warpig in the bridge and a Mule in the neck.

I'm saving to replace the stock pickups on my Gibson LP Std, and there the DC of the bridge is roughly twice that the neck (though as often repeated, DC is only a vague guide to "output"). But I've been thinking about pairing a Warpig in the bridge (for "silly grin" playing) with an Abraxas in the neck (for that smooth sustain); the Abraxas is supposed to be a little hotter than the Mule, so I'm guessing that would work out fine! :) A lot of people who dig the Warpig seem to be extreme/modern metal players (or French jazz musicians!), which I'm not, but I can't keep myself from falling in love with the prospect of playing the most ridiculously heavy power chords ever. :twisted: Likewise, as a lover of Santana neck tones, I thought about a Mule or (with a bit more output) the Crawler, but with the Abraxas coming out now, I figure I might as well look that way.

HJM · « **Reply #9 on:** September 07, 2005, 11:02:40 AM »

Quote from: Tim

Sorry I was getting too verbose..............quote]

There you go again :lol:

tonberry_king · « **Reply #10 on:** September 07, 2005, 12:07:56 PM »

Quote from: carlaz

I'm no expert, but based on what I've learned so far from this forum, you can pop a pretty high output pickup in the bridge and pair it with something much more restrained in the neck; at worst, you may have to play a little with raising/lowering the heights of the pickups to get them balanced. But HJM has a guitar with a Miracle Man in the bridge and a Stormy Monday in the neck, while I've seen a least a couple of happy reviews on Harmony Central from people with the like of a Warpig in the bridge and a Mule in the neck.

What if I were to have a higher output pickup in the neck rather than in the bridge? Would I just need to adjust the bridge pup to level things a bit?

It's only an idea anyway, I just really like the sound of owning a Warpig :P

More realisticly... what would sound better out of a Riff Raff brige/Mule neck and a Mule bridge/Riff Raff neck?

carlaz · « **Reply #11 on:** September 07, 2005, 12:22:39 PM »

Quote from: tonberry_king

What if I were to have a higher output pickup in the neck rather than in the bridge? Would I just need to adjust the bridge pup to level things a bit?

My understanding is that you commonly want a higher output pickup at the bridge because the strings don't move as much there, and a higher output bridge pickup balances naturally with a lower output neck pickup (since the strings move more at the neck).

The pickup descriptions on the main BKP pages are, as I understand it, primarily describing the bridge pickup specs. In a calibrated set of Riff Raffs (for example), I think the neck pickup is a slightly different creature from the bridge and would likely be of somewhat lower output. But the BKP wizards will steer you right on this sort of thing.

Quote from: tonberry_king

I just really like the sound of owning a Warpig :P

Well, I hear that! The feel-good coolness factor certainly works its magic on me. :)

Quote from: tonberry_king

More realisticly... what would sound better out of a Riff Raff brige/Mule neck and a Mule bridge/Riff Raff neck?

That, I guess, depends a lot on the kind of tone you're looking for! I don't think I know enough about the subtlties of the Riff Raff vs. Mule, but my gut feeling would be Riff Raff bridge/Mule neck if you wanted to mix'n'match those two. But that's very much an uninformed opinion! Again, the BKP dudes will have the info you need. :)

PhilKing · « **Reply #12 on:** September 07, 2005, 12:24:04 PM »

I know Tim doesn't like the higher output pickups in the neck because they muddy the sound too much. There is a lot more string vibration there and so a lot more input into the pickup.

I have a lot of calibrated sets with different pickups, and they all seem to come out pretty well balanced. I have a set coming with a Warpig bridge and a Mississippi Queen neck. I already have a sort of similar set in a PRS (Crawler & 2 P-91's), so I know that the sound is great! I was wanting a Toni Iommi sound and in his early days he was using P-90's.

If you think what sort of sound you are after and tell Tim, he will help you get it right. My Riff-Raff bridge has a Stormy Monday neck (with Alnico IV), which was not a combination I was thinking of, but it really does sound great for rock and blues. The Riff Raff really does have a lot of attack, I put up a clip in the payers section with it and you can hear the harmonics and attack from it.

The Mule does everything too, so a Riff Raff/Mule set would probably be a good match if you want a little more drive from the neck pickup.

tonberry_king · « **Reply #13 on:** September 07, 2005, 02:59:13 PM »

The Mule has a little higher output than the Riff Raff, but only a little, that wouldn't affect much would it?

At the moment I kinda feel like I don't know what kind of tone I'd get from the Riff Raff and whatever else, I'm not so good at listening to sound clips and thinking "that sounds great!", so I'm having a small breakdown here :P

I don't know what to make of hearing that the pups would be great for rock and blues, I'm never sure what people mean when they say rock and metal for example, many people I ask have different ideas of what goes under which category =/ Blues is, to me... well I'm not a fan really, heh.

How would you describe the guitars from A Perfect Circle or Tool? So I get an idea of how much 'attack' and whatever else I want :)

Tim · « **Reply #14 on:** September 07, 2005, 08:15:20 PM »

Both bands use reasonably low output pickups..........the reward is a bigger and more dynamic tone.
Don't panic over your pickup choice, if you buy a pickup and it's really not right for you I'll swap it for another.At least by that time we'll have some common sonic ground :D