When is good enough?

[Doadman]

Not sure if I'm posting this in the right place so sorry if I'm wrong. I practice regularly but still don't think I'm good enough to join a band as there seems to be so many great guitarists out there who are certainly better than me. They always seem to be in guitar shops when I'm in there anyway! Conversely, a couple of family and friends reckon I am good enough but I suspect that is because I am only good compared to their ability (none). As a result, I've started to wonder, how do you know when you are 'good enough' to join a band? I don't want to attend an audition just to embarrass myself and I do find that when I have an audience of some sort my fingers cease to work as well. I'm torn between thinking 'No way I'm good enough yet; don't be silly' and 'There must be worse guitarists than me out there who simply have the bottle to have a go'.

For those of you in bands, especially those who joined their first band a little later in life; how did you know you were ready?

[headtheball]

Joining a band is the single best thing you can possibly do for your playing.

Besides, no band sound absolutely perfect first time out, and whilst auditioning can be a nasty enough oul process, most people have sufficient decency to recognise you're amongst strangers, and not fully acquainted with their material.

[Jonny]

Well firstly, joining a band, you don't need to:

1. Know every scale, chord, etc.
2. Be able to solo, tap, sweep, legato, etc. etc.
3. Master song-writing, riff creating, etc.

Really, all you need to do is play guitar. Which I'm sure you can. It's all a learning process. You learn as you progress.

Then again I may be completely wrong but it's what I think. :roll:

[38thBeatle]

I would say that if you are joining an existing band, don't overstate your abilities but don't undersell. Be open and say you haven't been in a band before and try to familiarize yourself with their material ( ask for a set list including keys) to give yourself a chance when you get there. At auditions, the guys are looking for another member who is going to fit in personally as well as musically and so try to fit in with the atmosphere and be yourself. You'll only find out if you are good enough by doing it and even if you don't  get the gig, it can be for many other reasons not just ability. I play in a band as a lead guitarist but I consider myself to be a bassist. I do 50% of the lead vocals but don't consider myself to be particularly great singer but I play to my strengths and  that is that I can cover a lot of ground. I keep solos simple and not too long.None of us are great musicians but we play really well together and tons of work as a result-so it not just about being good enough and it is more about fitting in together- long winded but that is the point I was trying to get to.

[Roobubba]

I thoroughly agree with 38th here - it's about fitting in. You could be the best guitarist in the world, but if you're looking to join an existing band and you've got a bad attitude, they're more than likely not to hire you! My only experience with bands is when we've started them from scratch (3 bands in the last 13 years or so). My current band is looking for a vocalist, and I have to say it's had for the band in this situation (and when you're looking for another guitarist, too). We're worried that we'll ever find a person with the right kind of attitude who can commit to vocalising for us once a week in the Oxford area.

My best advice is not to get het up with ability. It's been said above that being in a band is the best thing you can do for your playing, and I can only agree here.
It teaches you most to play in time, to listen to your band mates, to work together to a final goal, and it brings you closer as friends, which is bloody brilliant.

I consider myself to be a poor guitarist, and I have generally low self esteem. Being in a band has helped me in more ways that just my playing!

Roo

[Twinfan]

I joined my first proper band, YC/DC, about 2 years ago at 30 years old.  I guess that makes it "later in life"?  The last band I'd been in was at school when I was 17.

I was nervous about the audition, but as everyone has said it's about fitting in and being able to play to a reasonable level for the band you're looking to join.  I sounded very Angus-y and got on well with the other guys so I got in.  I know there are way better 'technical' guitarists out there who can tap/sweep pick/do crazy bends etc but I can hold a solid rhythm, my timing is good and my way of playing is 'old skool'.

I guess I'm trying to say you need to choose an appropriate style of music that you're comfortable playing, and give it a go!  Being in a band is a superb experience  :D

[badgermark]

I've found that unless you're gong for a 'technical' band (speed metal or something) technique aint that important. In the bands I've been in I've always fitted in socially, and most importantly- wrote good guitar parts/songs.

If you can turn up on time every week, set up without fuss (our last singer spend 30 minutes 'setting up' the pa system- can't hear me! was a frequent shout. sing louder you dick!) and come up with awesome guitar parts with kick ass tone then you'll be fine.

[_tom_]

Yeah fitting in with the other people is more important than ability imo. Though you still need to be able to play through the songs. Anyway playing with other people is a great way to improve, it definitely helped my timing and pushed me to learn new songs with harder guitar bits.

[Ratrod]

If you know 3 chords, hold a beat and can get along with others, you're good enough to be in a band.

Some of those 'great guitarists' aren't that great at all. Sometimes they only know a handfull of songs. Heck, there even was this one guy. They gave him the middle name of "Ain't Talking 'bout Love" cause that's all he could play. Pure perfection but that was all he could play.

Then there's those guys who know a billion scales but can't hold the beat or know a single chord to save their lives.

And then there's those guys who are amazing musicians but also complete and utter A-holes.

Being in a band is about fun and passion for music. It's not a pissing contest.

And like the others have stated: oining a band is the single best thing you can possibly do for your playing.

[AndyR]

+1 to all the replies above

GO for it - and don't worry about the fingers freezing up, they won't when you're in the right environment and fitting into it.

I guess a lot of the people in bands here would confirm this - depending on style of music, I guess - but my experience in playing in bands taught me that "less is more". There are things you can play in private that are quite tricky, but they don't really seem to work in an ensemble, even if you get them right. You'll probably find, once you're in and playing with people, that stuff you regard as too "cliched" or "basic" now is what impresses audiences the most.

[il˙ti]

I agree with pretty much everything in this thread. That said, it's really good to see a guitarist with modesty. Most players who suck don't know they suck (and that's particularly guys in bands), so chances are you don't suck.  :D

I've been in a couple of bands on and off over the years and they always fell apart before any magic happened. It was either musical differences (didn't much feel like playing powerchords half the time), personal differences (me being 15 and a non-smoking virgin, the rest of the band being 20-year-old college kids), loss of interest in that particular type of music (black metal got old fast) and other reasons. I've still got one band on hold, but it's proving very difficult to find band members.
Yes, what's most important is that you fit in with people but that's a whole lot easier said than done. The people you fit in with well may not want play the same type of music. And it's just as important to be comfortable with the music as it is with the band members. If you can find decent folks that play decent music, you're lucky. If they are decent musicians too, you are very lucky.

I still don't think I'm good enough to write and play the kind of music I want to, which is another reason I'm off the band environment these days, and in a way I'm comfortable with that.... for now.

[Philly Q]

I think, Doadman, you and I are the same age and I've also never played in a band so I'm in no position to give advice  :oops: .  So I'm talking strictly from theory not experience, but I imagine the key to it (as everyone has said) is finding people you get along with and who also have similar aspirations.

Let's face it, at our age we are never going to be "rock stars" so there's no point taking it all deadly seriously, "auditioning" for would-be-professional bands with original material who are looking for record deals and tour slots.  It's far more likely that you'll be playing covers in your local pubs, with some other old geezers who also have day jobs.  So look for bands who like the same music you do.  And then being "good enough" is simply being able to play those songs (in time with that particular group of musicians!).

You could even place an ad somewhere looking for people of your age and musical tastes who want to form a band, making clear from the start what level you're at and how seriously (or not) you want to take things.

Some of those 'great guitarists' aren't that great at all. Sometimes they only know a handfull of songs. Heck, there even was this one guy. They gave him the middle name of "Ain't Talking 'bout Love" cause that's all he could play. Pure perfection but that was all he could play.

That's a very interesting point, which I've often thought about.  We tend to think our heroes are amazing musicians who can do anything, but even with long-established bands, we've only ever heard them play a few dozen songs, in one or two styles.  Maybe in some cases that is all they can do - they might be completely incapable of anything else.  And there's nothing wrong with that - it just proves you don't need the skills of a first-call session musician to play in a band.

[HairyChris]

Lots of good advice.... Go for it!

I started playing late-ish (16/17) and joined my first band aged 21. I wan't great technically and was pretty cr*p at learning stuff at the time. My line was 'I haven't learned any of your songs but I can play F*cking Hostile by Pantera at full speed'.

Surprisingly it worked.  :lol:  Actually, it was a fair test on the bandmate compatability side of things....  and they were desperate! :roll:  Seriously that's pretty important. A dick in the band can ruin things.

One thing is noticable, though, and that is the rate that you improve after playing with other people for a while. This includes both technique and feel.

GO FOR IT!!

Sorry, am I repeating myself?

[JJretroTONEGOD]

Being in a band is great, it's very very important to work with the right people though, always trust your gut intuition on everything, you will gain respect if you are good, do not listen to idiots telling you 'you are a star' it is complete bollocks unless you are in a signed band selling millions of records a year!, just concentrate on guitar playing and music and nothing else. Personally I like to play sober, dunno about everyone else?

[Ben_W]

Well a lot of these guys, who know a lot more than me have said probably a lot better stuff, and i'm only 16, but have been playing for around 5 years now (around 3 and a half to 4 seriously), and have gigged with a lot of bands, now some of the best bands I have played with, have been, individually, fairly average, but sound awesome!

As everyone else says, being in a band IS the best thing, as the main thing is, however much you love guitar now, you'll love it even more! and you'll get more influenced, and you will just keep on improving. Despite my age, I have been in a few bands, (one fairly successful one), and i've seen an audition once, and a guy came in, and tried to play some incredibly hard sweeping/tapping combination covering the whole guitar, and it just sounded terrible! The guy that got the place came in, played something he knew really well, made it sound tight, and made it sound good.


If you see a band you fancy joining, perhaps go to a gig of theres (if they are gigging), or if not, drop them a note, asking what covers they play/want to play, depending on how established they are, and learn one or two of them well, and see how it goes, because they will never say "play me arpeggios from hell, by Yngwie Malmsteen" or anything like that, so IMO, confidence is the key, and I know it's hard, as I was never confident at all, but once you've played live a few times, the surge is awesome! :D


lol, sorry about my really long message, and it's probably useless anyway, but ah well. And i'm sure you're probably ready, even without ever hearing you, as long as you can play a few songs well, you'll be fine :)