Tubes halp!

[badgermark]

I'm thinking about retubing my Tiny Terror, starting to get a bit farty when any gain is used, plus i wanna experiment.

Basically i know nothing about tubes, what the different types sound like etc, and what the difference is between the multitude of options out there. Basically all i'm after is a warm tone with as much clean headroom as possible from the toaster.

Is there any good resources online I can use to brush up on? Also where is the best place to get tubes from? online or a local shop?

[hamfist]

I hardly know where to start....there's a lot to it really.  I'd start by doing some searches for "tubes" on one of the "better quality" forums out there, like www.thegearpage.net .  You'll pick up a lot of info that way.
   Some basic choices are whether you go for current production tubes, or NOS (New Old Stock) tubes. The term "NOS" is often applied (inaccurately) pretty broadly to mean any vintage tube from the 50's through to the early 80's.
  NOS tubes are better, IMO. Certainly they last much longer than modern tubes. Although in reality any tube can suddenly fail at any time, whether it's NOS or current production.
  Personally, I think the better NOS tubes out there have noticeably better tone too, although that is, of course, subjective.
  I tend to use NOS tubes in my pre-amp, but stick to the better brands of current production tubes in the power amp, as I find that power tubes are not anywhere near as tonally critical.
  if you are looking for clean headroom, you should also look into replacing one or more of the 12AX7 tubes in your TT with 5751's, or 12AT7's. These will definately help you get more headroom.
 I'd also have a read on the Orange amps forum to see what other TT users are trying out.
  As for tube vendors in the UK, both Watford Valves and Hotrox are excellent. If you are a bit of a noob with "toobs", definately buy from somewhere like the two mentioned, who test their tubes very thoroughly.

[Elliot]

If your going 5751s in V1 (a sound option for good tone)- GE's are bright, Philips are darker.  Buy a Philips, try it out, its worth it just to see what NOS tubes are like in terms of difference.

[Fourth Feline]

If your going 5751s in V1 (a sound option for good tone)- GE's are bright, Philips are darker.  Buy a Philips, try it out, its worth it just to see what NOS tubes are like in terms of difference.

+ 1 on that one .  :)

I swear by using a N.O.S Philips 5751 in the V1 position to keep things clean and detailed.   You will lose a little overall gain, ( the 5751 only give about  75 % of the gain a 12AX7 has ) - but the added clean headroom and smoothness ( if / when you do use distortion ) is well worth the initial volume loss at the same pre - amp settings.

I once experimented putting all 5751s in my Fender Twin, but found that it only seemed to really matter in the V1 position. At least that left  me with lots of spares !

[_tom_]

I used a JAN 5751 in my HRDx to clean it up a bit, it made the distortion channel smoother and clearer which it desperately needed! I still have it lying around doing nothing actually. I think it was about £20 when I bought it, you can have it for a tenner inc. postage if you're interested?

[MrBump]

You might want to post your questions here:

http://www.orangeamps.com/forum/

I post there sometimes, the forum is nearly as nice as this one, full of decent guys who are only too willing to help.

Mark.

[badgermark]

Thanks for that guys, all I was really wanting was some pointers to some good resources, this being my first port of call cos I trust you ugly lot  :D

Tom i'll to some research and get back to you. I still need to learn what the hell V1 means... I'll figure it out at some point. Thanks again folks.

[_tom_]

I think V1 is just the first preamp valve that the signal comes into contact with, so it shapes the tone the most. I may be wrong though.

[Elliot]

You are correct

[Fourth Feline]

I'm thinking about retubing my Tiny Terror, starting to get a bit farty when any gain is used, plus i wanna experiment.

Basically i know nothing about tubes, what the different types sound like etc, and what the difference is between the multitude of options out there. Basically all i'm after is a warm tone with as much clean headroom as possible from the toaster.

Is there any good resources online I can use to brush up on? Also where is the best place to get tubes from? online or a local shop?

Oh, I just remembered something else Mark ; when I was buying in a spare pair of EL84 output tubes for my 'Classic 20 '  ( from Watford Valves on that occasion ) - they recommended Sovtek EL84M types for achieveing the most 'headroom'.  There may be J.J. or higher spec types available by now , but at least you can investigate EL84M  types as a starter ?  I hear they are the equvalent of another valve model ( i.e. who's number is not EL84 - but some other 'strange' number ).

At least the Watford Valves website has some nice definitions / descriptions of the various options to read as a starter .

Happy hunting !

[badgermark]

Ahhh so many random letters and numbers! I don't have a chance with this stuff! Who want's my credit card details and permission to buy tubes, and only tubes for my amp? I trust you.

[_tom_]

Well you managed to actually get your BYOC to work so if you can do that I'm sure you can figure out which valves to get :D I still havent got my byoc working..

[Fourth Feline]

Ahhh so many random letters and numbers! I don't have a chance with this stuff! Who want's my credit card details and permission to buy tubes, and only tubes for my amp? I trust you.

Hi Mark,

How about a matched pair of Harma E84L/7189A output valves fromWatford Valves ? I believe they are about £12 each + vat and postage .

Described as being " the best current valves for clean headroom"  and the 'Harma'  ( a Watford valves re-branding of some other make ) - denotes that they have been thoroughly tested.  Add to that a single Philips 5751 for your first valve position - and whatever else you already have for the other 'slots'.

Failing that, ring Watford Valves and ask what they would recommend. They are not cheap, but you get the expertise.

[badgermark]

Thanks guys, I'll need to spend time going over the different types, been swamped with uni stuff recently; just graduated but need to learn a tonne of new stuff for a summer placement. Been up to my eyeballs on methods to analyse illegal drugs. Not being a typical student (never drank, smoked or taken drugs at all) I don't even know the basics of illegal drug usage....

Shame about your byoc Tom, I think I got lucky with my first build. I've been soldering since i was 13, so that part wasn't tricky. Planning to put together a phaser kit, we'll see if it was beginners luck. Still no problems with the mouse, and it's been kicked around at rehearsals. Its just these numbers that confuse me, being borderline dyslexic doesn't help much (i mix up letters and numbers all the time, thank jeebus Macs have a built in spell checker...)

I'll keep updating my experiments with toobs. Can't believe it's taken me so long to learn this cr@p...

[Elliot]

That's coz being a (now ex-) student you can't afford to waste money on mistakes - which is a good thing....

The Harma E84L/7189A are nice sounding valves, but can be quite 'hard' sounding in the first month: I have gone through about 3 sets over the years (EL84s last about 1 year before getting progressively muddier) and recommend them.  I just got some of the New Sensor 'Mullard' branded EL84 and they sound good, even if not Mullard.