Modes

[Ian Price]

Might be a bit of an ambitious question. I'm trying to learn about modes at the moment and can't really make a lot of sense of them. I know the mode names.

I think I am getting myself confused with the relationship between keys and modes and am finding it difficult. Can anyone explain in laymans terms - if that is at all possible!

[MDV]

Modes are scales made by starting a new scale with every note in the major scale (aka the ionian mode), following the same pattern as the major.

So if you have the major in C

CDEFGAB

this is also the inonian mode. Extend it through 2 octaves and all the others are in there.

CDEFGABCDEFGABC
..DEFGABCD - Dorian
....EFGABCDE - Phrygian
......FGABCDEF - Lydian
........GABCDEFG - Mixolydian
..........ABCDEFGA - Aeolian
............BCDEFGAB - Locrian
                           
Any help?

Edited cos the forum doesnt recognise lots of spaces at the start of a line, so I put dots in.

[Antag]

Great explanation MDV!

See also the diagram I posted in this thread.

IMO the important thing about learning modes is not to think of them as 7 different scales, but rather the same scale but played over a different key....

[Will]

" the same scale but played over a different key...."

I am not so experienced, but I agree with that completely, the interaction and emphasis on different notes etc makes all the difference.

[Matt77]

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Joe+satriani+modes&search_type=

This link from the other thread helps you hear the difference.
I always found it easier to hear the difference if you play an open E string and then play each modal scale starting from the 7th fret of the A string

[shaman]

one thing that helped me....most people know the ol' E Natural minor scale(called Aeolian in mode terms...) it is E-F#-G-A-B-C-D-E......play this OVER AN E MINOR CHORD and bingo!!!
well, the G Ionian scale is G-A-B-C-D-E-F#-G....play it over a basic G chord and bingo!!!!
..see a pattern????same damn notes!!!!!different ORDER...its all about the CHORDS you play over and the overall TONALITY(major??minor??)
therefore, you can play all of your killer e minor licks when you are jamming over a G Major ....it works!!!!(think "Cliffs of Dover")
.....I started with this concept until I was sick of it...then I moved on to other modes(ex.   start with A-it goes A-B-C-D-E-F#-G-A..same notes,but it is a minor scale now in the key of A..its A Dorian!!!)
-I would recommend LEARNING the INTERVALS as well as the modes-they go together just like cold and BEER!!!

[shaman]

ooh...forgot...I would like to add that It was much easier after I championed the concept of the minor and major pentatonics-ex....Eminor pent. is the same as G Major pent...the ol' relative major/minor rule cuts everything in half(the relative minor for any key is three frets lower...G on the 3rd fret of the ol' big e string minus 3 frets equals ....an open E!!)
!!
-much like my 1st post, you can see the relationship..in rock /country/classic music, I find that my playing is centered around the pentatonics and, in the modes, it is Mixolydian and Ionian(sort of thought as the major modes) and Aeolian and Dorian ( 2 common minor modes) -I rarely get "modal" with the others...after a while, you kind of "custom taylor" your "bag of tricks"
....man, those 2 extra notes can really mess things up..as you go, you will see the intervals and how some modes "work" over certain chords and how some notes should be avoided-as always, take small steps!!

[MDV]

Cheers antag!

[horsehead]

I always thought that the mode within a key changes due to the intervals? ie C D E F G A B C = Ionian
C D E F G A Bb C = mixolydian etc (that was the only I could think of off the top of my had!), so the tonal spacing between the notes changes the sound.

----------------
Now playing: The Allman Brothers Band - Statesboro Blues
via FoxyTunes

[MDV]

I always thought that the mode within a key changes due to the intervals? ie C D E F G A B C = Ionian
C D E F G A Bb C = mixolydian etc (that was the only I could think of off the top of my had!), so the tonal spacing between the notes changes the sound.

That is of course true.

And so it everything else in the thread ;)

You can play any mode in any key. You can choose a mode thats suited (same intervals) to the tonality of a song, and play it in that key (Metallica wherever I may roam is a good example of this with Phrygian). You can progress from one mode to another and change key to change mood, and the hang together and make musical sense (like playing G major (ionian) over G major, but then changing to A minor (aeolian) over G major). The list goes on.

The only thing that you cant change or be creative with is the order and their relationship to each other. That is fixed. If your playing in E Minor then the corresponding major (ionian) is always G, and so on.

[Muso]

Dont forget modes just arn't for the major scale, theyre for every scale, so youve got your harmonic Minor modes, your pentatonic modes etc. Its too complicated for me tho I'm just sticking to major its easiest.
Seriousley you wanna get into Arpeggios, theyre much more fun than modes and sound so melodic!

[tomjackson]

I think mostly when we talk of modes we are referring to the modes of the major scale.  So if you know the major scale inside out, the you know the modes also; and I think outside learning the pentatonic and blues side of things then modes of the major scale are the next place to explore.

For example, try playing the A major scale over B minor.  You are actually playing B Dorian.  Or if you play A major over D Major and it becomes D Lydian, or an A major scale over E7 and it becomes E Mixolydian.  They all have different 'flavours'

So if you know the major scale it's easy to work out but there are a few loose rules....  Dorian works over m7 chords, Phygian over minor chords, Lydian sounds good over major chords, Mixolydian Dom7 chords, Aolean Minor chords and Locrian....(no idea).  So basically by changing the position of the major scale can change the whole feel of a progression.  Or keep the scale the same and the change of chord will change the mode you are playing in.  I think they call this pitch axis or something.

You can also change the mode for each chord, throw in a few arpeggios and your on your way to playing a bit of Jazz.

But don't listen to me, I've had 4 cans of Stella and the Blues scale sounds great over anything!!

[JJretroTONEGOD]

when you use the pitch axis theory everything opens up, because unlike learning modes in from the Key of C major, it's essential to know the intervals and how they relate to each other

here is an example:

C major (easy)

C D E F G A B (C)

instead of going to D Dorian, lets try C Dorian:

C D Eb F G A Bb (C)

1 2 b3 4 5 6  b7  8

from this theory you can work out what D major is!

how?

lets go back to mode 2 from the Key of C Major: D Dorian

D E  F  G A B C (D)

1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 8

it's the same interval relationships

now lets make D Dorian into D major:

we know that the major scales spelling is 1234567(8)

so now lets apply this to D Dorain, which is 12b3456b7(8)

notice that the 3rd and 7th intervals are different, to make them natural we have to sharpen them:

D Dorain

D E F G A B C (D)

to

D Major

D E F# G A B C# (D)

I hope this helps in some way lol