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Author Topic: Treble bleed circuit with a Nailbomb  (Read 7850 times)

Baxter

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Treble bleed circuit with a Nailbomb
« on: September 14, 2005, 03:19:57 PM »
Hi everybody,

I have a nailbomb bridge in my Tokai PRS copy.

I love the pickup, but it is VERY high output.  I would love to turn down the volume on my guitar and retain the wonderful high end characteristics of the Nailbomb pickup.

I have been told that a treble bleed circuit can acheive this. Also, it's simple to add one.

Has anyone tried this with a Nailbomb or any humbuckers on their guitars ??

If so can they suggest a cap value for a humbucker ?? I have added the circuit diagram for anyone who's interested.

Thanks,

Baxter.
Bax...

big steve

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Treble bleed circuit with a Nailbomb
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2005, 04:25:40 PM »
is that diagram saying that you just put a cap in between the pickup side of the volume pot and the wiper then? and it stops loss of tone quality when the volume is turned down? interesting, i might try one
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PhilKing

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Treble bleed circuit with a Nailbomb
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2005, 06:23:03 PM »
You need a 0.001F (microfarad) capacitor for it.  I don't like them myself and take them off (they are on a lot of Telecasters).
So many pickups, so little time

big steve

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Treble bleed circuit with a Nailbomb
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2005, 06:57:36 PM »
what don't you like about them phil? how do they affect the tone?
down from the glens came the marching men...

PhilKing

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Treble bleed circuit with a Nailbomb
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2005, 07:36:06 PM »
Hi Steve, I find the sound gets too bright when I turn the volume down.  There is a fix for this with Humbuckers and 500K pots, adding a 150K resistor along with capacitor, but this affects the way the volume control works.  

Using a 300K pot helps with the overall sound, also using a 0.020F capacitor, rather than the 0.047F, will let more treble through as you turn down the tone.  This gives more range to the tone control.

It is easy to fit the cap, so I would suggest you try it to see if you like it.  My ears wil be different to yours (probably much older  :lol: )
So many pickups, so little time

Bainzy

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Treble bleed circuit with a Nailbomb
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2005, 08:51:32 PM »
I've heard it's a 0.002uF cap and 100k resistor in parallel, 0.002 are hard to find though so I've bought twice as many 0.001uF as I'd need and will be wiring those in parallel. I'll do a report on how it sounds when the guitars finished (this hard ash body is taking a lot of work, paint and sandpaper to fill the grain  :cry: ).

The 100k resistors were purchased from maplins.co.uk (and I managed to score a battery holder with screw holes, perfect for guitar, for 99p!)

The caps were purchased from http://www.pw-electronics.co.uk/

big steve

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Treble bleed circuit with a Nailbomb
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2005, 08:58:50 PM »
i'm concerned as to why you'd want to put a battery in a guitar...





oh and thanks phil
down from the glens came the marching men...

HJM

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Treble bleed circuit with a Nailbomb
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2005, 09:52:27 PM »
Quote from: PhilKing
Hi Steve, I find the sound gets too bright when I turn the volume down.  There is a fix for this with Humbuckers and 500K pots, adding a 150K resistor along with capacitor, but this affects the way the volume control works.  

Using a 300K pot helps with the overall sound, also using a 0.020F capacitor, rather than the 0.047F, will let more treble through as you turn down the tone.  This gives more range to the tone control.

It is easy to fit the cap, so I would suggest you try it to see if you like it.  My ears wil be different to yours (probably much older  :lol: )


+1 I hate bleeder caps, they really fuuck up th etone of 'bukers when you turn down, they add treble, in a false way I find. try going to 1 meg volume pots, they don't kill the highs as much, so as you turn down the highs will still be there, or ore highs will still be there!

Quote from: big steve
i'm concerned as to why you'd want to put a battery in a guitar...


must be for LEDs!!!!
Apache,VHII,Emerald,Nailbomb,MiracleMan,StormyMonday,BlackDog,Trilogy,Mothersmilk,Sultans+Sinner

Baxter

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Component values
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2005, 10:42:53 AM »
Thanks for the info guys.

I read somewhere that you need to know the impedense of the pickup you are using, hence the orginal question.  So you would need to know the inductance of the Nailbomb pickup.

Tim are you watching ??

You could then calculate the values needed to give you a more even treble response as the pot value reduces. This would be quite difficult.

The other way would be to try fitting different caps, but I'm not sure which resistor value to use, as this could upset the Nailbomb pickup when the volume is on 10 as someone mentioned. I don't think his could be calculated.

I think I will buy some caps and resistors and try it out as the guitar has rear facing electrics cavity, and the job is really easy. I will feedback the results.
Bax...

Tim

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Treble bleed circuit with a Nailbomb
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2005, 09:57:10 PM »
Don't even get me goin on inductance and impedance :lol:

Try not to use a treble bleed cap as they really mess with the tone of the pickup.
The easiset fix is to lower the pickup in the mounting ring, you'll get slightly less power and a cleaner tone, also going to a 1 meg pot will help although a 500K should do it after you've adjusted pickup height.
Tim
BKP - "Wound, made and played the traditional way --- by hand!" Amen.

Baxter

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Treble bleed cap
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2005, 02:56:22 PM »
Hey Tim

The circuit I suggested would not effect the pickup tone when the volume is high, as the cap would be shorted out completely.  This would only happen if a significant resistance was introduced into the path of the cap, therefore creating a working high pass filter.

I'm still going to take your advise and lower the Nailbomb though, cheers.
Bax...

Bainzy

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Treble bleed circuit with a Nailbomb
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2005, 04:01:21 PM »
Quote from: big steve
i'm concerned as to why you'd want to put a battery in a guitar...


mid/gain boost pot I'm trying out

Underground_Player

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Treble bleed circuit with a Nailbomb
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2005, 09:03:18 PM »
Tim,

Does the treble bleed cap 'remove tone' even when the volume is fully wound up? Or do you agree with HJM that the highs it retains sound artificial?
This topic was mentioned back in April; in fact Duncan@Organic Guitars mailed me the link when we were discussing circuit options for the new guitar. Back then Tim you said, '' ...they're just for poor sounding pickups. A good pickup doesn't need a treble bleed cap.'' So are BKPs immune from this treble loss?

I had a bleed cap put on an old Jackson and the sound did indeed gain in highs when the vol. pot was turned down...the Organic, which also has a similar cap. arrangement, just seems to retain highs instead of adding them. What on Earth is going on?!
Mostly Harmless

Tim

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Treble bleed circuit with a Nailbomb
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2005, 09:34:21 PM »
Scatterwound pickups have more high end due to lower capacitance in the coil, so over a mass produced one a BKP certainly won't suffer anything like the treble loss when volume pot loading is introduced.
 IMHO I think that with the volume on full with a treble bleed cap across the hot legs of the pot, the tone is artificial bright and unnatural. I really don't see any need to do this sort of thing if the correct pickup has been chosen in the first place. I've certainly never used them or heard any benefit from one with a humbucker with or without a resistor inline too. They're more commonly used with Teles or larger single coils with a lower pot value but it's so much easier to increase the pot value rather than introduce capacitance.
Again this is where selecting the right pickup to go with the guitar and playing style is important. Fitting a Warpig to a solid mahogany guitar for example and then playing country isn't going to work, it'll be too bottom heavy.Solution: fit a lower output pickup with better upper mid and high end cut.
It gets difficult when you trying to get one guitar and one pickup to be completely versatile and all things to all men..............again my leanings would always be towards the lower output pickups as they're ultimately more versatile.
Tim
BKP - "Wound, made and played the traditional way --- by hand!" Amen.

Underground_Player

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Treble bleed circuit with a Nailbomb
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2005, 09:47:37 PM »
Thanks for the thorough reply Tim. Looks like I'll be getting in touch with Duncan again  :roll:  :)

BTW guys I'll be paying my dues with a soundclip in October when I'm at college, cos my flatmate has pretty decent recording gear :) I know you can't wait! I was thinking a crunchy 12-bar and a fingerpicked clean thing cos nobody's done that yet. I've got a Stormy Monday and a Nailbomb, both splittable....let me know if you want a specific split or something.
Mostly Harmless