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Author Topic: Rant - Hot Mastered CDs  (Read 6613 times)

Modular1

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Re: Rant - Hot Mastered CDs
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2008, 08:58:15 PM »
On the album in question there should be NO digital clipping at all as Jack White is a retro fiend and uses analogue tape. So any digital brick wall clipping you hear happened after the final mix.

do you reckon he has even heard the cds that are on sale?

i heard the vinyl version is fine. id hate to think the pressed a digitally clipped album to vinyl. that would really take the piss.

Davey

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Re: Rant - Hot Mastered CDs
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2008, 09:18:54 PM »
i $%&#ing hate  it!

before, i didnt give a damn, majorly because all my headphones and speakers sucked. now that i'm on a proper system (shut up ben! :D ) i heav every damn nuance and it's pissing me off

Johnny Mac

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Re: Rant - Hot Mastered CDs
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2008, 10:47:25 PM »
I noticed this with SOAD Steal This Album, I had to back off everything or it distorted, i didn't understand why at the time but i do now after playing with cubase for a few years. Those meters only have to stray into 0 db and it sounds like cr@p. With compression and limiters you can really raise the overall volume a hell of a lot. I didn't realise this was such a common problem now. It seems stupid to do it, why invest so much time and money into a recording only to let some suit dictate what it ultimately sounds like?
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indysmith

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Re: Rant - Hot Mastered CDs
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2008, 09:04:58 AM »
I noticed this with SOAD Steal This Album, I had to back off everything or it distorted, i didn't understand why at the time but i do now after playing with cubase for a few years.
But that doesn't work either - because the digital distortion is written into the CD, you can back off everything as much as you like; all that's going to happen is that the volume is reduced.
My audio interface has level lights on it that show when the signal goes above 0dB; with many modern CDs they are lit 98% of the time. The layout of most tracks seems to be relatively quiet for the first five seconds, and then brickwalled for the rest of the song. Tragic.
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phlip

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Re: Rant - Hot Mastered CDs
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2008, 09:10:46 AM »
On the album in question there should be NO digital clipping at all as Jack White is a retro fiend and uses analogue tape. So any digital brick wall clipping you hear happened after the final mix.

do you reckon he has even heard the cds that are on sale?

i heard the vinyl version is fine. id hate to think the pressed a digitally clipped album to vinyl. that would really take the piss.

The couldn't press that it wouldn't play, the bumps in the track on the vinyl would be to severe and cause the record to jump. Which si why you would nnever have a loudness war with Vinyl.
If only it didn't rumble, click, pop and get scratched it would be perfect  :P

indysmith

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Re: Rant - Hot Mastered CDs
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2008, 09:24:20 AM »
If only it didn't rumble, click, pop and get scratched it would be perfect  :P
A properly set up turntable won't do any of these things; vinyl should last forever.
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AndyR

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Re: Rant - Hot Mastered CDs
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2008, 02:14:10 PM »
If only it didn't rumble, click, pop and get scratched it would be perfect  :P
A properly set up turntable won't do any of these things; vinyl should last forever.

But we're musicians though! :lol:

Dunno, it might have changed, but back when I were a young man, chaps could be roughly divided into two classes of audiophile:

Class 1: Hi-end hifi owners
Expensive turntables, amps, speakers, headphones, purpose built living rooms
No-one allowed to touch their vinyl (or sometimes even record sleeves) unless properly trained.
These guys would talk stylus, tone-arm balancing, etc.
They wouldn't be prepared to play your records on their system...

Class 2: Musicians.
Record player with plenty of oomph please...
Rusty old nail for "needle" (What's a "stylus"? isn't that what the Romans used for writing on wax tablets?)
Pass us a Pink Floyd album would you, I need to er, "lean on it" for a moment...

Now I'm old and trying to convert some of my records into digital, I somewhat regret being a member of Class 2 for all those years...

On the hot mastering though - the bit that really gets me is the digital clipping that gets left on commercial products. I don't mind too much if the dynamic range is squashed on new product and it comes out as a wall of sound. I feel like that's an "artistic" decision (possibly not taken by the artist, but that's another argument).

But clipping is just poor bloody workmanship - didn't they check the wretched thing? Didn't they spot the little red light go on??!! (or whatever mechanism the software used to highlight it, cos I bet there's one there on whatever mastering software they used)
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 02:15:45 PM by AndyR »
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Philly Q

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Re: Rant - Hot Mastered CDs
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2008, 02:36:27 PM »
If only it didn't rumble, click, pop and get scratched it would be perfect  :P
A properly set up turntable won't do any of these things; vinyl should last forever.

Back in my vinyl days, it wasn't the turntable that put the scratches on the LPs, that was the way they came from the shop. 

Just taking the discs in and out of those stupid paper sleeves was enough to scratch them.  And unless the disc actually stuck or skipped, there was no point taking it back because the replacement was guaranteed to be scratched as well.
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phlip

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Re: Rant - Hot Mastered CDs
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2008, 04:21:54 PM »
But clipping is just poor bloody workmanship - didn't they check the wretched thing? Didn't they spot the little red light go on??!! (or whatever mechanism the software used to highlight it, cos I bet there's one there on whatever mastering software they used)

Ah but they aren't clipping, the CD is most certainly not be going above -0.01dbs otherwise the pressing plant rejects them for overs (I think the limit is 10 overs per disk before it's rejected)

Brickwall limiters pushed to the hilt for maximum gain reduction is the problem. To bring the RMS up anything that would peak above -0.01dbs is rounded off. Of course we've had limiters for years and when used carefully they just round off the very peaks of transients bringing up the level nicely without artifacts. Of course now they're being used to bring already loud mixes up by 5-10dbs which is mental. A lot of peak data is rounded off then and you get artifacts which is just digital distortion. It's madness.
Your nice bass drum transients go from ~~~~~~~~~~~ to ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬

Johnny Mac

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Re: Rant - Hot Mastered CDs
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2008, 05:53:18 PM »
I noticed this with SOAD Steal This Album, I had to back off everything or it distorted, i didn't understand why at the time but i do now after playing with cubase for a few years.
But that doesn't work either - because the digital distortion is written into the CD, you can back off everything as much as you like; all that's going to happen is that the volume is reduced.
My audio interface has level lights on it that show when the signal goes above 0dB; with many modern CDs they are lit 98% of the time. The layout of most tracks seems to be relatively quiet for the first five seconds, and then brickwalled for the rest of the song. Tragic.

I noticed that it didn't make a difference and didn't know why, I do now though. It is a terrible thing to do to a recording after all that hard work. I remember level meters bouncing along nicely just flicking near 0 db, now they just stay there. Its all wrong. Did this all start because of ipods?
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TwilightOdyssey

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Re: Rant - Hot Mastered CDs
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2008, 06:26:21 PM »
Did this all start because of ipods?
No, this can be blamed on one man: Rick Rubin. May he burn in hell for this.

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Re: Rant - Hot Mastered CDs
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2008, 08:09:22 PM »
Did this all start because of ipods?
No, this can be blamed on one man: Rick Rubin. May he burn in hell for this.

Please explain for us Ben
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phlip

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Re: Rant - Hot Mastered CDs
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2008, 09:13:06 PM »
Yeah please explain. I've got a lot of Rick Ruben produced rock CD's (Slayer, Danzig, Cult, Johnny Cash ;0) and they all have dynamics and aren't over limited Well as much dynamics as Slayer Get. they are loud but thats his style  it was done with dynamics and mixing not limiting the shitee out of it  :D



This is worth a read
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article1878724.ece

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/17777619/the_death_of_high_fidelity/print

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