Non-Fender relic replicas - who builds them?

[PhilKing]

Bravewood for me are the best, but there is a wait to get one.  They have the vintage feel as well as the look.  I've played a few, and they all manage to have the mojo that an old guitar has.

Haven't tried one, but they certainly look amazing on the website!  But I'd be nervous about ordering one, the guy comes across as a bit scary, as I've said before.  :lol:

Actually John is a very nice guy, but he is a perfectionist, so he hates to be interupted, especially if it is someone asking how to duplicate his vintage finishes!  If you deal with emails, or make an appointment to visit, then he will chat for hours (of course some of this could be because I can talk for hours too).  When I got my first guitar I tried his various neck shapes and saw the different colours that he does (he doesn't offer all colours because he has to have seen the real thing in order to duplicate the aging).  Currently he is making me a Jazz Bass and a replica of my 57 Strat, but in sunburst not white.  What I do is drop him an email every 2 or 3 months, and then he will let me know if there are any questions.  I always believe this is the best way to work with someone because if you leave them to it they can get on with the job.  The thing to realise about a vintage finish is that if has to 'cure' before the aging process can start, this cannot be rushed, so there is no point in bothering him since he can't make it happen any faster.

[WezV]

and i really, really liked phils bravewood.  The attention to detail blew me away and it in no way did it feel rough.... it felt like a well loved old guitar!!

[FernandoDuarte]

His guitar looks like he is a great builder, but this bugs me:

I reserve the right to cancel any order, at any stage should I feel the need to do so, if this situation arises, any money paid will be returned.

In the interest of continual improvement, I also reserve the right to change specifications without notice.

:?

[Twinfan]

That's quite rubbish.  I don't like that.  At all.

[WezV]

it means that he isnt going to let a guitar out of the workshop that he isnt entirely satisfied with, i dont think thats so bad

[AndyR]

I'm two minds, first reaction was same as Fernanado and Twinfan, but when I jokingly thought "now there's an 'artisitic temperament'... " I realised that he is a kindred spirit.

I was well known for what others called my "artistic strops" when I was leading bands back in the 80s/90s, and of course, I was always right :lol:

So I kinda see where he's coming from. If I was interested in a Bravewood - and I'm reaching the conclusion I probably won't be interested in a relic - I would see how we got on in initial discussions/negotiations, and if we're talking the same language I'd regard that comment as re-assuring. If we didn't hit it off I'd regard the comment as a bit of a warning!

[Twinfan]

it means that he isnt going to let a guitar out of the workshop that he isnt entirely satisfied with, i dont think thats so bad

That's not how I read it Wez, otherwise he wouldn't give the money back?  He'd just start again?

I read that as "if I get pissed off with you, or this particular build, or I decide to jack it all in then I'll just give you your cash back".

That's not the way I would run a business!

[WezV]

it sounds to me like he includes that disclaimer because of a bad experience and i would think it is very rare that he has to put it into action. 

 i bet most times things go wrong he does start again rather than jack it in completely - like andy says, it would be worth communicating with him first to get a feel for how he does business and maybe ask how often he has to jack it in

i'm a over excited convert because of the one bravewood i got to examine and play with for a bit, the disclaimer wouldnt put me off now - although i think i would go for a lighter relic rather than the heavier ones

[martinw]

I guess the Dearnaley reference I posted earlier got submerged. Have a read of this:
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/product/Dearnaley+Guitars/Relic+Strat/10/1

They reviewed a Strat and a Tele in Guitar Mag a year or two ago, and the reviewer bought one of them!  :)

No artistic toy-throwing either. FWIW, I don't care who you are, it's no way to run a business.

[PhilKing]

I'm going to jump in and defend John at Bravewood once more!  I have met with him 3 times in person, and swapped emails and phone calls many times.  He has always been a pleasure to work with, even though my first guitar is an HSS modified Strat (which I thought he might not want to do).  The problem he has had (like many other custom builders I suspect), are time wasters and also mind changers.  He is a one man company and he makes everything himself from scratch (including some metal parts), and does all the spraying and finishing.  He doesn't list his phone number anymore because of the need to get on with things without interuption. 

With anything that you are having built for you, it is important to decide exactly what you want before you start to get it made.  Once the job starts there are many factors that will cause frustration to the maker and extra expense to change.  Also, you have to be prepared to wait, and I think this is where the problem comes in.  My first guitar took about 14 months to finish.  My Jazz bass is now pushing 17 months (but to be fair on this I told him that I was not in a hurry and so he wanted to let the finish harden and age more before 'relicing' it).  I am currently having 2 other guitars done (a replica of my 57 strat and a rebuild of my 61).  I dropped off the parts for the 61 and the neck for the 57, in April and then came back 3 days later to collect the 57 neck (he was just measuring and profiling it).  I haven't checked on the progress of these since.  I worked out what I wanted for the 57, and went through a couple of options with him, and was lucky enough to spot a body that was perfect that he was already working on.   I'll probably drop him an email in the next week or two, just to say hi and see how things are going.  I will not be back in the UK until October and John knows this, so that is when I will collect the bass.  If anything else is ready it will be a plus, but it is not a problem if they aren't.  If I was younger or hadn't had a lot of things made for me that took a long time, I would get  frustrated with the wait, however once you play the guitar, then you can see why he needs the time.

[Kilby]

Pardon me chipping in (as I havn't dealt with the guy) but I suspect that the seeming harsh terms may also be to do with people trying to change specs and not being entirely sure of what they want.

When (almost) everything is built from scratch many people don't realise the amount of work a seeming small change entails. Imagine somebody wanting a small change in the neck while he is waiting for the laquer to age properly.

Most other builders would just sling another neck on the guitar, but for him to do that would mean waiting for the replacement neck to get to the right condition to be reliced, with the customer no doubt complaining about the late delivery.

I see it as a means of protecting himself from hassle he could do without.

As for the possible spec changes thats in everybodys small print

[FernandoDuarte]

I believe you guys, but I still think he could had wrote it in a better way, even because if you don't know the guy (my case) the things looks weird to read, like don't give you trust enough to make an order...
More or less he should write what you guys have wrote here, instead of what he wrote...

[Will]

Seems like a nice enough deal, nice looking guitars etc.
But I don't really want to know how many emails I sent Jonathan regarding little bits of everything, screwing around with my Kahler'd LP etc, probably spent a fair bit of time on the phone, and he was happy all the way through it. IMO just a different business approach, I would prefer the happy one though :)
All the my price is at a premium etc, although true, gets tiring. Luthiers are always dishing out info and advice in the tech forum here.
I think it would probably be worth the business, as they are unique, but treat it as a very formal transaction.

[Plexi Ken]

It looks like Bravewood no longer take custom orders,
http://www.bravewoodguitars.co.uk/FutureBuilds.html

... unless that page is out-of-date.

[Twinfan]

There's a link to it from the FAQs page, but it's not clear on the rest of the site.

I've just had a good read of the stuff on his site and while I understand his time is at a premium, I don't personally care for his attitude

I'll be taking a closer look at Fenders, Nashs, McGuires and those Dearnaleys.......