I want Bareknuckles! But which set...?

[hermantehgerman]

Hey everyone!

I'm looking for some new pickups for my Epiphone Les Paul Classic Quilt Top - a really nice playing guitar, but, well, it has Epiphone pickups, which do not blow me away:P

I play a mixture of Blues/Blues Rock/Classic Rock/Funk Rock - there isn't really any player/playing style I can identify with completely. My influences include Eric Clapton, John Frusciante, Jimi, Alvin Lee, B.B. King, Neil Young, Rory Gallagher, John Fogerty, Mick Jones (of the Clash), George Harrison, Peter Buck, the guys of Lynyrd Skynyrd, Jimmy Page, Peter Green, Zappa, Dylan/Mike Bloomfield, Paul Kossoff, Jack White, Mark Knopfler, Duane Allmann, Santana, Keith Richards, Pete Townshend, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Angus Young and many many more...

I guess what I'd want from my pickups is a vintage/PAF vibe and tone, with some added clarity maybe - the anti-clarity of the epi pickups along with the high end loss with the volume knob on 5(!) really bugs me.

What I was thinking, before emailing Tim with this exact inquiry, was that a Mule set would be right for me (I've talked to a couple of persons that own them and they seemed to be quite what I would want) - now, along comes Tim's answer: The PG Blues Set (which he suggested mainly because I mentioned wanting to do a In/Out of Phase thing to get PG type of sound with a PP Pot I guess) and, excluding the PG sound, the Stormy Monday set.
I respect his opinion and suggestions 100% - I believe he really really knows his stuff, otherwise he couldn't be building pickups as good as these - but I wanted some more opinions. That's where you forum users/BKP owners come into play: what would you suggest for that type of sound, or what do you play to get such a sound?

My amp is a Fender Champion 600 as of now (I still play through a Pignose HOG20 at times as well), the goal is an AC30 some time along the way:P


alright, thanks in advance and Cheers!





wow...this is a wall of text..sorry:P

[remak]

One can only endorse Tim's suggestions. Mules for classic rock. PG Blues if you want the out of phase thing. You might also consider Black Dogs for a more middly rock sound

[il˙ti]

I'd suggest Mules for a versatile blues rock set. You can get phase switching with any set of BKPs, if you order them with 4 conducter wiring (the PG Blues set comes permanently out of phase) using a push-pull pot or mini switch.

[PhilKing]

I love the PG Blues set, it is more versatile than people think, it is based on Stormy Mondays but has a bit more kick.  You list a lot of guys who use single coil pickups and the PGB will help you get that sound.  The Mules will be a fatter sound and more creamy, but nearly all the people you have were using old lower output PAF's to get their sound and then adding a booster before the amp,

[AndyR]

Even though I've not tried them (PGs or Stormies), I think I'd go with Tim's suggestion, for the same reasons as PhilKing.

The Mules give me the classic rock tones of the LP players in your influences, and I use a strat/etc for the other tones.

If you're trying to get into the ballpark for all of your influences, from the one guitar, I suspect Tim's suggestion would suit you better.

However - if you have a strat/etc up your sleeve and "are open to getting more BKPs when you've heard and felt what all the fuss is about..." :lol:, then I'd probably go for Mules in the LP.

And welcome to the forum :D

[Ratrod]

I rarely argue against Tim's recommendations....................


.................in this case...................



..........I won't either.

[hermantehgerman]

alright, thanks to all of you who've responded so far!

the thing is, i really like the tones i hear from Peter Green on the album/songs i have - it feels like i really get a cloose sound to that already though O_o
I have a question though: Peter's tone sounds really really thin in comparison to Claptons Beano LP sound, Kossofs Fire and Water album sound, jimmy page's "Good Times Bad Times" and even Bloomfields sound on "paul butterfield blues band" (album) - why is that? is that just the recording (as I suspect it is in the case of jimmy page), but afaik, since all recordings were made around the same time, that all albums used the "primitive" recording techniques they had back then, right? what other reason is there for this?


oh, and the booster/low output pickup theory sounds interesting - any more info on that? i believed that most of these guys used '59 LPs, which would then equal a mule pickup set, no?

anyway, as a few people said, i did at first want to get a more single coil tone out of my LP (that was when i was crazy about jimi and the chili peppers), but Ive come to like the really typical, woody LP sound.

cheers, and thanks for the warm welcome!

[Twinfan]

I have a question though: Peter's tone sounds really really thin in comparison to Claptons Beano LP sound, Kossofs Fire and Water album sound, jimmy page's "Good Times Bad Times" and even Bloomfields sound on "paul butterfield blues band" (album) - why is that? is that just the recording (as I suspect it is in the case of jimmy page), but afaik, since all recordings were made around the same time, that all albums used the "primitive" recording techniques they had back then, right? what other reason is there for this?

It's the "out of phase" setting of his Les Paul, with both pickups on together, that gives the thin sound.  This is what the PG Blues set replicates.  With just one pickup selected you get the "full" sound as normal  :)

[hermantehgerman]

and that "full sound" would get the tones of the beano album, page's tone, and all the other fuller sounding stuff?

"merry go round" and "rollin man" are played using the inbetween out of phase position then?

[Twinfan]

I can't comment on specific songs as I'm not that familiar with Peter Green's work I'm afraid.

One thing you might not be able to replicate with the PG Blues set is the tone Clapton gets on 'Hideaway' (as an example).  I think he uses both pickups together on that one but with them IN phase, which the PG Blues pickups can't do without extra switching.

For maximum tonal choice, you could get a set of Stormy Mondays with four conductor wiring and a push/pull pot.  You could then wire the pickups up so that you could have the push/pull giving in/out of phase.  That way you can cover Peter Green and Clapton/Page with the same guitar.  :)

[Philly Q]

It's almost defeating the object of the PG Blues set, but presumably you could special-order them with 4-conductor wiring and have the best of both worlds?

[hermantehgerman]

actually, i talked to Tim about that, since I thought Peter Greens Out of phase sound was just "any" out of phase sound too...his reply "The PG Blues mid tone holds up more bass resposne than usual out of phase and the signal drop isn't as drastic either." - so I guess if i want the PG sound, I'd have to get a PG set, not just any 4cond. wire pickup set - Tim on that in our email conversation "You'll only get the real PG Blues tone with the neck pickup wound correctly and with the right type of wire, just flipping the phase of a normal humbucker doesn't get the same tone."

I am assuming that I'd get a normal inbetween sound if i install a switch to put the two pickups back in phase though - so that would cover the clapton sound (actually, the "fuller" clapton beano sound i was talking about is the sound of hideaway:P)

I am sort of worried that the neck pickup, which apparently is different from other humbucking neck pickups, will be, i dunno, weird...different, if you get what i mean...would i get a normal neck pickup sound?

cheers!

[Philly Q]

I don't think the reverse wind (or reverse magnet, or whatever it is) will have any effect on the solo neck pickup sound - it only makes a difference with both pickups on.

[hermantehgerman]

thats awesome! i was hoping somebody would say that!

so a PG blues set (4 conductor wire) along with a booster along the line it is?

[Stringkiller]

Herman

I see that you are worried that the PGs might be too thin sounding compared to the Clapton Beano or Cream tones and to Jimmy Page tones. They are not.
I think you'll find that in the up or down PUu selector positions they sound like a really good Les Paul Standard - have a listen to
The fantastic Bare Knuckle PGs Peter Greens thru a Tokai Les Paul (Love Rock) into A Koch Twintone (no effects)
http://www.myspace.com/drpickup
The Waiting Blues
 -middle position
Fishing ( No thats not a PRS Santana in the Intro)
-Neck and Bridge Pickups
I'm Tore Down
- all three positions

Recorded at an French Army base - June 2008.

Also read Stringkillers review of the the fantastic Bare Knuckle PGs Peter Greens on Harmony Central
Enjoy and as always feedback apreciated

Bear in mind that most of the first two Zepellin LPs were in fact recorder on a Telecaster.
Bruce Stringkiller
Something to check are Pgs available in 4 conductor wiring configuration?
What amazes me with these pickups as I said on the Harmony central is small increases and decreases of any of the two volumes or tone pots make for some pretty drastic tone shaping - from thick to thin and back in the middle PU selector position.
Bruce Stringkiller