distortion/boosters before amps

[JDC]

I was reading metal hammer yesterday and they had a gear section in the middle and I was shocked to find out that mike from opeth gets all his distortion from a boss gt6 before a laney on a clean setting

I thought distortion from an amp was suppose to sound better than distortion from a pedal, is it this true or is just having an amp with tubes what matters? (I never did understand why people bought distortion pedals unless they only had an amp that was good at clean tones)

also if I have say a tubescreamer before an amp, what does having tubesceamer on full volume instead of using more amp gain do to the tone, as I don't really hear any difference on amplitube

someone else in metal hammer was talking about using more channel volume than master volume to get a smoother lead tone, this makes absolutely no sense to me, could someone explain this as well please

[maverickf1jockey]

Amp distortion is very much more variable than a digital simulation for starters.
Add to that that Mikael likes single channel amps and using a pedal is a reasonable compromise.

I'd expect that he uses the amp distortion for recording but uses the clean sound exclusively live so that he can get that sound and not have to adjust knobs to do so.

Adding an OD pedal with gain down and volume up makes for a more compressed and slightly brighter sound which is perfect for rock/metal as it also tightens up an amps response.

Chances are that your amplitube models have that built in for the more rock-like sounds so the overdrive will have little effect.
It could also be that they just haven't added that algorithm in order to save space or make the effects more like their rackmount counterparts.

[gwEm]

even if tubes are clean, they still add a warm compression to the sound, if they are being driven a bit. live i suppose it might make sense to use a moddeller and switch between many distortion flavours. not my cup of tea, but i understand it. he may want to add chorus/reverb/delay on the gt6, and so it would be better not to have a driven amp.

[hamfist]

I was reading metal hammer yesterday and they had a gear section in the middle and I was shocked to find out that mike from opeth gets all his distortion from a boss gt6 before a laney on a clean setting

I thought distortion from an amp was suppose to sound better than distortion from a pedal, is it this true or is just having an amp with tubes what matters? (I never did understand why people bought distortion pedals unless they only had an amp that was good at clean tones)

also if I have say a tubescreamer before an amp, what does having tubesceamer on full volume instead of using more amp gain do to the tone, as I don't really hear any difference on amplitube

someone else in metal hammer was talking about using more channel volume than master volume to get a smoother lead tone, this makes absolutely no sense to me, could someone explain this as well please

You ask a lot of questions and it will be difficult to answer them all, but anyway.

  Amp distortion is not really better or worse than pedal distortion. It's all subjective really.   A lot of people would, however, probably agree that the very best distorted sounds out there probably come from amps. however, there are a lot of very, very mediocre tube amps out there too.
  personally, I would rather use a quality pedal distortion, than a poor-mediocre tube amp's distortion.

I have rigs which use both, neither is better than the other, just different.

One advantage of using pedal-based rigs is the much greater variety of tones that you can potentially get.

When it comes to high gain amps, I think that the general concensus is that the better tones come from amps still. it's just that pedal manufacturers have been a bit slow getting on the band wagon for high gain tones.  There are literally hundreds of low-mid gain pedals out there, but only a few that have a good stab at reasonable quality high gain distortion. The number of them does seem to be increasing every year though.

  It's also definately best to try and rid your mind of someone else's idea of what the best way to get "tone" is. The best way really is what works for you !!  and there's no other way to find that out without trying all sorts of different rigs.
  For the guy in Opeth it's a GT6. Fair enough, it works for him.  For me, it's another way. For you, it might be another way again etc etc.

[mikey5]

Its all Preference really I like amp distortion because it is not so compressed. Much more warm and Open for all styles I play. None of with however are speed or satanic metal so maybe those guys would prefer more compression

[JSHRED]

Everyone has pretty well nailed most of your questions. On the subject of channel volume versus master volume, the channel volume affects how much gain is occuring in the preamp section. If you're a rock/metal player like me, you probably want your tone as powerful and saturated as possible, so you'll dime the volume on the channel, and then just bring up the master volume to the actual perceived decibel level you are looking for.

This actually segues into the topic of tube screamers and the like. The purpose of boosters/drivers like these isn't to make your distortion (though some do for blues/jazz etc), but rather to further push your preamp stage and give your gain that extra kick. I think they're a good idea if you have a good metal amp and want to try to make it sound like a great metal amp. But if you plug one into a Marshall JTM45, you're not going to be playing Iced Earth on it.

On a related note, see the thread I started yesterday about just this topic.

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=14336.0

Anyway, on the subject of the pedals that are distortion in a box, I think they can be cool if you're an entry level to middleweight player who wants to get a fairly good tone without dropping 2000 pounds on a high power touring rig.

I've owned or toured with most of the tube metal amps, and I've also rebuilt my live rack more times than I care to think about. And I've owned all kinds of solid state gear, mostly preamps and effects. My feeling is that a solid state distortion (BOSS GT6, GT8, GT-PRO etc) can sound good, but you really need to have it running into the effects return on a tube amp to warm it up and give it just a bit of tube power to make it sound "real." I've gigged with guys who have jacked PODs directly into PA systems and it sounds digital as all hell. It sounds cool when you're recording, but you try it live and it just doesn't push air the same way.

I prefer a tube preamp, one that reacts naturally to my high gain passive pickups, but I can do a solid state pre/distortion box. It just needs to get powered by a tube poweramp or a tube head. At LEAST a mosfet power amp, like a Mosvalve etc. You go straight solid state and it just hurts your ears. I was in love with my Vetta II head for a long time, but it never quite gave me the gutsy tone that I wanted. Line6 now has a rack version of the POD X3 system. I'd like to try that through a Mesa 20/20 or something, I bet it would give you a heavy and versatile system without a lot of compromise. Or the Fractal Audio Axe-FX. I consider that the holy grail of solid state preamplification.

OK, I've been typing long enough, time to go stretch my fingers around a les paul neck.

[JDC]

thanks guys

Adding an OD pedal with gain down and volume up makes for a more compressed and slightly brighter sound which is perfect for rock/metal as it also tightens up an amps response.

Would this is be the same reason why metal players prefer high output pickups?

[gwEm]

indeed, high output pups give a more compressed tone and higher output to drive the amp more.

although, high output pickups don't give the same pedal boosted tone, so it can still be a good idea to use a booster even with high output pickups.

i think you can get alot more of a gain boost from a pedal than a high output pickup, though the compression and slight extra tightness of high output pickups all helps

[Lew]

oops wrong place

[Alex]

The guy from Opeth is kind of an oddity. But yes, they both do it that way and the result isn't bad at all.

[blue]

i know a guy that gigs with a mesa recto-verb and only ever uses the clean channel.  all his drive tones come from pedals, even when he's playing metal.

seems like a bit of a waste to me.