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Author Topic: New amp advice  (Read 7465 times)

Stevepage

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New amp advice
« on: October 27, 2008, 08:52:53 PM »
Hi Guys and Girls.

I've been looking around for which amp to get next. At the moment I have a Laney VC50, it's serving me well but I'm not really 'feeling' a combo. I had a half stack for years and really miss that power I had.

Now I play in a metal band (think Carcass, Nevermore) so my primary sound is High gain. There are the obvious choices (ENGL, 6505, MESA etc) but I've been looking at other amps that I haven't considered before:

Marshall JCM800 (I would mod it to have 6550's)
Marshall JMP
and
Orange Thunderverb

I'm looking for something clear sounding, powerfull, tight, reliable, balls to the wall tone but also have warm mids and can cut through a mix well.

Would either of the Marshalls cut it for my requirements? I'd be using a Bodenhamer Bloody Murder as a boost anyway (tube screamer clone). I know the JCM800 would sound great because I loved the Zakk Wylde Marshall that Tim has with an SD-1 and have wanted one for a long time.

I'm not sure on the JMP though, I've never played through one so what are you experiences with it?

Can the Thunderverb get a bit chuggy with out sounding too 'stoner/doom'?

Twinfan

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Re: New amp advice
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2008, 09:02:40 PM »
Orange amps aren't generally 'tight' I don't think, but they will have warmth.

I'd go for an 800 personally.  Maybe get Martamp to build you one to your spec???

Stevepage

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Re: New amp advice
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2008, 09:11:07 PM »
yeah I have considered Martamp as I've seen some of the great work on this board. It would work out a touch cheaper (I think) than a 800KK too.

Oli

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Re: New amp advice
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2008, 09:37:33 PM »
A boosted 800 is perfect for tight, cutting metal. I was using one in the studio a couple of months ago, and it sounded incredible, even without a boost there was a nice heap of gain there :) If you turn it up to about half on the master volume, then it's really singing, and it sounds incredible, so smooth yet punchy... no nasty fizz or anything. They sound good at lower volumes too, although if you did go down the Martamp route, you could have Power Scaling built into it. I've not owned or played a Martamp (yet), but all we've heard on this forum is good things, and i'm sure that it'd be much better quality than the genuine thing (although if you could get one of the early 800s, then i'd say go for that, as you can't be the vintage 800 :))

I think the Thunderverb may be a little too doom/stoner for a tighter metal genre, however, i've got some serious GAS for one, as they sound great for what i'm after! :)


Nailbomb, VHII, Warpig 7, MQ, Black Dog, 10th Anniversary

Lew

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Re: New amp advice
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2008, 04:13:10 AM »
I'm looking for something clear sounding, powerfull, tight, reliable, balls to the wall tone but also have warm mids and can cut through a mix well.

That's pretty similar to what I asked Martin to make...well, I actually said "Wind Cries Mary breakup to first two Vanhalen albums gain and a decent clean tone please", it has a master volume and I'm getting a dod250 clone made to push it over the edge, should do high gain fine-Martin is great to work with too, really thorough with the specs! Friday can't come fast enough!
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 04:20:10 AM by Lew »

hamfist

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Re: New amp advice
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2008, 08:27:53 AM »
Hi Guys and Girls.

I've been looking around for which amp to get next. At the moment I have a Laney VC50, it's serving me well but I'm not really 'feeling' a combo. I had a half stack for years and really miss that power I had.

Now I play in a metal band (think Carcass, Nevermore) so my primary sound is High gain. There are the obvious choices (ENGL, 6505, MESA etc) but I've been looking at other amps that I haven't considered before:

Marshall JCM800 (I would mod it to have 6550's)
Marshall JMP
and
Orange Thunderverb

I'm looking for something clear sounding, powerfull, tight, reliable, balls to the wall tone but also have warm mids and can cut through a mix well.

Would either of the Marshalls cut it for my requirements? I'd be using a Bodenhamer Bloody Murder as a boost anyway (tube screamer clone). I know the JCM800 would sound great because I loved the Zakk Wylde Marshall that Tim has with an SD-1 and have wanted one for a long time.

I'm not sure on the JMP though, I've never played through one so what are you experiences with it?

Can the Thunderverb get a bit chuggy with out sounding too 'stoner/doom'?


If you are potentially looking at a 100W JCM800, I would stick with the single channel 2203 (or derivatives like the 2203KK).  THe flexibility of a twin channel is appealing but, according to all the sources I have read, there are compromises in tone with the channel switchers (not played a switcher myself).
  As far as I understand it, the 2203 KK is basically a standard 2203, but fitted with KT88's and with integral solid state boost/EQ and boise gate functions. I'm sure you could get the very same sounds with a standard 2203 with a good boost and a noise gate.

  As for JMP's, it all depends on which models you are looking at. the JMP100 2203 is exactly the same circuit as later JCM800 2203's.  OK, there have been minor revisions over the years - very early '76 models I think may not have had the cascaded gain stages of all the later ones. Also later JCM's (somewhere around '85 onwards I think) had different filtering layouts, which are not generally considered as good.
  So basically, a 1977/78 JMP100 2203 is the same thing as an early 80's JCM800 2203.

However, unless you are desperate to use a "vintage" model (as all these are now 20-30 years old) I would recommend getting a modern amp cloned on the old circuits. At 20-30 years old, there are all sorts of components that are starting to show their age, and the amps will simply not be as reliable as a quality new build.
  Martin W could build you a good one (and give you good UK-based after sales support). Cheaper still (and still superb quality) are the Ceriatone amps.   I have owned a vintage 2204 and a new Ceriatone 2204 and I do prefer the Ceriatone.  the Ceriatone (being hand-wired) is also waaaaay more tweakable.

  Another thing to consider is how much you might potentially want to use an FX loop.   the current Marshall re-issues have well thought out loops, that are reliable and effective.
  Ceriatone (and Martamp as well, I think) can only provide a simple "interupt" FX loop. THese can work well with line level equipment, like rack gear or some more expensive pedals (DD-20 for example) which can switch to line level, but are a PITA with instrument level pedals. If you wanted to use an EQ in the loop, you should be looking at getting a Marshall if you are going to use a pedal. Or get a rack EQ if you might be using an interupt loop.
  Martin may well be able to provide a buffered loop, but certainly didn't when I last asked him (it was a while ago).

I suspect you're already very aware of this, but the 2203's need volume to give anywhere near their best. If you aren't going to be playing really very loud, then you'll need to be budgeting for a good attenuator, or power-scaling really - just IMHO, of course !
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 08:29:55 AM by hamfist »

Twinfan

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Re: New amp advice
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2008, 11:52:40 AM »
Just a quick comment re. Power Scaling.  It's not really possible on 100w amps.  It can be done sometimes, but it seems to be best on 50w amps and below......

jpfamps

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Re: New amp advice
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2008, 12:11:35 PM »
Just a quick comment re. Power Scaling.  It's not really possible on 100w amps.  It can be done sometimes, but it seems to be best on 50w amps and below......

A 100W amp can be power scaled, you will probably have to cascode the series pass elements in the voltage regulator to ensure their survival.



jpfamps

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Re: New amp advice
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2008, 12:21:42 PM »

[/quote]

However, unless you are desperate to use a "vintage" model (as all these are now 20-30 years old) I would recommend getting a modern amp cloned on the old circuits. At 20-30 years old, there are all sorts of components that are starting to show their age, and the amps will simply not be as reliable as a quality new build.

 
[/quote]

The older Marshalls are much better build than the newer Marshalls, so I would always advise buying an older Marshall than a new one. The late 70s JMPs are probably the best value Marshall amp available and sound great. Additionally these amps will hold their value.

Regarding reliability, I see more modern Marshalls to repair than older models. And they can be a right pain to sort out.

Twinfan

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Re: New amp advice
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2008, 12:36:10 PM »
Just a quick comment re. Power Scaling.  It's not really possible on 100w amps.  It can be done sometimes, but it seems to be best on 50w amps and below......
A 100W amp can be power scaled, you will probably have to cascode the series pass elements in the voltage regulator to ensure their survival.

Like I said it can be done sometimes  ;)

But sometimes not....

jpfamps

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Re: New amp advice
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2008, 12:51:15 PM »
Just a quick comment re. Power Scaling.  It's not really possible on 100w amps.  It can be done sometimes, but it seems to be best on 50w amps and below......
A 100W amp can be power scaled, you will probably have to cascode the series pass elements in the voltage regulator to ensure their survival.

Like I said it can be done sometimes  ;)

But sometimes not....

No. It's perfectly possible to do with any amp of any power, you just need to ensure that the voltage regulator element can dissipate the appropriate amount of heat. The is easy to do by cascoding regulators until the require power compliance is met.

Twinfan

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Re: New amp advice
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2008, 01:00:33 PM »
I wouldn't say it was easy.  My 120w Laney Klipp had SERIOUS heat issues when it was Power Scaled....

Roobubba

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Re: New amp advice
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2008, 03:46:17 PM »
I wouldn't rule out a 5150 or ENGL etc. But then I would say that, wouldn't I? :)

Roo

hamfist

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Re: New amp advice
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2008, 05:32:08 PM »
The older Marshalls are much better build than the newer Marshalls, so I would always advise buying an older Marshall than a new one. The late 70s JMPs are probably the best value Marshall amp available and sound great. Additionally these amps will hold their value.

Regarding reliability, I see more modern Marshalls to repair than older models. And they can be a right pain to sort out.

If you read my comment closer, I did recommend a new CLONE, not a new Marshall itself.  Personally, I'd go for a new built hand-wired clone.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 07:28:07 PM by hamfist »

jpfamps

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Re: New amp advice
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2008, 05:46:25 PM »
I did read your initial post. A clone is probably the best option, but also the most expensive.

What I can't understand is why someone would buy a JCM800 Reissue when an original JCM800 is cheaper (and better built).

As for the newer Marshall offerings.........