Last quality check before Purchase

[mikey5]

So I finally have money now to buy my new guitar (yesss) Anyway So I have been checking out the Edwards, and Tokais Les Pauls like I told you all earlier, but I just finished reading in the Edwards appreciation that the parts of edwards guitars are made in china and assembled in Japan. Dont know if thats true or not.

just wondering If tokais are the same or if they are built and assembled in Japan. I have 900 USD.
Id like to hear from you all
mike

[dave_mc]

i've heard that about edwardses too.

i was under the impression that tokais (the japanese-made ones, anyway :lol: ) were 100% made in Japan, but I could be wrong. might be worth registering at japanaxe or the tokairegistry forums to see if they know more.

that being said, based on the ones I've tried, I'd prefer an edwards to the lower-end MIJ tokais (higher end tokais, the tokais start getting nicer than edwardses).

[hamfist]

At the end of the day, parts like tuners, bridge, pots, knobs etc are always replaceable. The MIJ Tokais are excellent guitars, in terms of the quality of the body, neck, action, finish etc. The hardware is not the best in the world (nor should you expect it to be for the money), but the overall quality of what cannot be changed is superb.
  Having said that, I have owned a MIJ Tokai LP as my number 1 guitar for about a year, and all I have changed is pickups (which didn't really need to be changed, but I'm a natural tinkerer).
  I'll be honest, I don't know where a lot of the parts of the MIJ Tokais are produced - probably in China (most things are these days, even on top quality stuff), but the overall effect of the guitars, and the quality of the way it has been put together is well worth the money.

  When I was last looking at guitars, the only other similar quality guitars, for similar prices were from Washburn - may be worth looking at too.

[Philly Q]

As I think I said on your earlier thread, there's very little to choose between Edwards and Tokai.  Go for whatever has the features you want, there'll be no significant difference in build quality.

As for the "Made In China" rumours, I don't know if they're true and I don't particularly care, it's the end result that matters.  To quote Mr Trev Wilkinson - not talking about guitars specifically, but it makes the point:

“Steel is steel.  If it’s heat treated it’s gonna last.  Bending a piece of steel, whether it’s done by a Korean guy or an American guy on their bending machines, it’s still the same component part – providing the bend is done in the right place!”

[ailean]

I can't comment on Edwards but I've got 2 MIJ Tokai guitars, a 120 (335) and a LP. Both are superb build quality and sound great, the LP has BK's in it now, and the 335 will get them. If you get a Tokai look for a second hand higher end MIJ if you are on a budget, I don;t really know what prices they go for around the world but I paid £680 (new) for my LP, which was down from the ticket price of £799. The 120 was second hand at £600. I'd happily buy another Tokai (unless I could afford a Gibson Custom Shop :) )

[mikey5]

that being said, based on the ones I've tried, I'd prefer an edwards to the lower-end MIJ tokais (higher end tokais, the tokais start getting nicer than edwardses).
[/quote]


Ok just to check what price range is (low end). Like 1000 usd or so??? Higher end would be like what price range?
thanks

[dave_mc]

^ i was hoping you wouldn't ask that. there are so many different tokai models it's easy to start getting confused... :lol: i think the higher the number, the higher the model, i think it's based on the list price in yen (it is with edwardses, anyway). normally numbers around 70 to 80 in the model number are the lower end japanese ones... over 100 normally means higher end. I could be wrong, though, hopefully philly or someone else can clarify this...

you also need to make sure it's a japanese one, too- you can normally tell by the model number (they often say, "made in japan" on the back of the headstock, too).

At the end of the day, parts like tuners, bridge, pots, knobs etc are always replaceable. The MIJ Tokais are excellent guitars, in terms of the quality of the body, neck, action, finish etc. The hardware is not the best in the world (nor should you expect it to be for the money), but the overall quality of what cannot be changed is superb.
  

definitely agreed about making sure that the stuff you can't change is good quality- on other forums, some people complain about certain guitars have poor pickups etc.- if you ask me that's much better than having a guitar made of cr@p wood with good pickups! It's a lot easier to change the pickups than the wood etc. :)

As I think I said on your earlier thread, there's very little to choose between Edwards and Tokai.  Go for whatever has the features you want, there'll be no significant difference in build quality.

As for the "Made In China" rumours, I don't know if they're true and I don't particularly care, it's the end result that matters.  To quote Mr Trev Wilkinson - not talking about guitars specifically, but it makes the point:

“Steel is steel.  If it’s heat treated it’s gonna last.  Bending a piece of steel, whether it’s done by a Korean guy or an American guy on their bending machines, it’s still the same component part – providing the bend is done in the right place!”

agreed. a lot of the korean/chinese guitars suffer because they're being told to make a mediocre guitar for a mid-range price point, or because it's a mid-range guitar they aren't forking out for the best machines or materials etc.

certainly on the edwardses I've tried, the stuff which matters is either being done in japan, or else the chinese factories doing the start of the work are being told to make a good guitar. :)

[Philly Q]

^ i was hoping you wouldn't ask that. there are so many different tokai models it's easy to start getting confused... :lol: i think the higher the number, the higher the model, i think it's based on the list price in yen (it is with edwardses, anyway). normally numbers around 70 to 80 in the model number are the lower end japanese ones... over 100 normally means higher end. I could be wrong, though, hopefully philly or someone else can clarify this...

Yep, that's the gist of it, I believe:    higher number = higher spec. 

And just to make it more confusing, they change the numbers when the price goes up.  My SG-155 would now be an SG-175, my SG-75 would now be an SG-85.

Another thing to look out for - the most expensive models have lacquer finishes and there'll be a sticker somewhere saying so.  Not that that necessarily makes it a better guitar...

you also need to make sure it's a japanese one, too- you can normally tell by the model number (they often say, "made in japan" on the back of the headstock, too).

Interesting point, that... my Tokais and Epis have all been marked "Made In Japan", but none of my Edwards guitars have actually said where they're made. 

[mikey5]

Well spoken thanks dave for clearing that up. I guess that is what I am worried about with the Edwards with parts of it being not so good quality. I guess that is what I am looking at here. I am going to be changing the pickups, and electronics so that isnt so much an issue. Its the make of the neck and body and the weight that really makes a difference to me. If someone knew which one was better constructed for the price of around 900 to 1000. Because if the tokai is a bit better than Id probably spend the difference. I dont want to spend 1300 because Id spend another 300 on the pickups and electronics, but yea around that price thanks for all the input. I will dedicate my guitar to the forum somehow.
Mike

[ailean]

I will dedicate my guitar to the forum somehow.
Mike

Pics!...

(or it didn't happen)

[Spitfire]

my mij sg is a beautiful guitar, it does still need the nut altering though..

i need to get that to a tech, i think its a bit past my skills.. and the fact that the files cost a fortune aswell.

[dave_mc]

Yep, that's the gist of it, I believe:    higher number = higher spec. 

And just to make it more confusing, they change the numbers when the price goes up.  My SG-155 would now be an SG-175, my SG-75 would now be an SG-85.

Another thing to look out for - the most expensive models have lacquer finishes and there'll be a sticker somewhere saying so.  Not that that necessarily makes it a better guitar...

Interesting point, that... my Tokais and Epis have all been marked "Made In Japan", but none of my Edwards guitars have actually said where they're made. 

yeah, that's true (the model numbers). my edwards doesn't say where it's made either- i did play a second-hand one, though, and it said "made in japan" on it. :)

[mikey5]

You guys tell me if you think this tokai is better than the edwards I am down to these two

http://cgi.ebay.com/TOKAI-LS90-Made-in-Japan-BRAND-NEW-Violin-Finish_W0QQitemZ270309647656QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar?hash=item270309647656&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

http://cgi.ebay.com/TOKAI-LS95F-Made-in-Japan-BRAND-NEW-mint_W0QQitemZ270311706341QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar?hash=item270311706341&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A2|294%3A50

[juansolo]

From what I've read on the internet (so take it with a pinch of salt). Edwards woodwork is made in an ESP factory (to thier QC) in China. They're then shipped to ESP in Japan where they're assembled and finished.

FWIW, the Edwards I used to have was flawless. Beyond the made in Korea stuff of Ltd and pretty much up there with an ESP standard series. I'd certainly have another, where it's made doesn't make a blind bit of difference to me, as long as it's made right.

[Twinfan]

If you're in the US with $1000, would it not make more sense to buy a used Gibson?

Or am I way off with the pricing?