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Author Topic: new recording (updated song, second song added, link fixed)  (Read 2147 times)

CJ

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new recording (updated song, second song added, link fixed)
« on: December 08, 2008, 09:29:22 PM »
ok, for those of you who might remember, months ago i posted a series of incredibly terrible recordings. most of you were very helpful, and others were a bit more on the criticism side. both worked just as well.
anyway, i've got a new recording down. this is my first real attempt at multi-tracking, now that i fixed the whole thing where i couldn't record and hear my previously recorded sections at the same time.
i'm hoping this track is a little bit better than previous stuff. i've been practicing a lot recently and i think i've got my playing a lot tighter. i did however have a bit of trouble with this track, as the timing seemed kind of awkward, and i had trouble of finding the right scale to solo with. i'm not too sure on the solo, but after a few listens i think it works.
i could've spent more time recording to get things perfect, but this was at least the first time where i did multiple takes on everything until i got it decent.

anyway, gear...
i'm up at college so all i have is my microcube, my xr-1, and a ZW od pedal.

Gibson xr-1 into my micro cube, line into computer.
track one (80% left) bridge pickup, JC Clean setting with the cube's built in delay and chorus
track two (80% right) bridge pickup, rectifier setting, no effects
track three (80% right) neck pickup, rectifier setting, delay
solo- neck pickup, rectifier setting, delay, zakk wylde overdrive for clean boost.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=733093
first song in the list. B.A.Y.

let me know what you think. i really hope i've improved, for those of you who remember my previous stuff (my username was callme.nasty)
« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 07:01:33 PM by CJ »

CJ

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Re: new recording (updated song)
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2008, 01:38:57 AM »
new version uploaded. added an extra echo (using audacity) to the clean track and shorted/ tightened up the solo part.

CJ

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Re: new recording (updated song, second song added)
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2008, 02:40:06 AM »
i've uploaded another song onto the same site, same link. song is BAY II. again, i'm not sure if i wrote the solo part in the right key, but it sounds right on to my ears... somebody let me know if it sounds off so i can fix it.

recorded using same gear as above.

neck p/u for all clean, bridge p/u for solo. coil tap was on for the single note clean part.

Matt77

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Re: new recording (updated song, second song added)
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2008, 02:39:31 PM »
Is there a way to hear it without joining?

CJ

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Re: new recording (updated song, second song added)
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2008, 07:00:15 PM »
you don't need to join to hear it. i either posted the wrong link or the site was down or something. i'll see if i can fix it.

Matt77

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Re: new recording (updated song, second song added, link fixed)
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2008, 11:40:04 PM »
Working now and I just listened to B.A.Y

You can hear you are improving as the rhythm part is picked more cleanly than some of your earlier recordings
I think some issues stem from each individual part clashing with the other when they all come in.
This is partly caused by the delay. The clean rhythm part and the distorted rhythm part are very similar but after about 20 seconds when the distorted part comes in over the top, the delay from the other part starts to create some discord as the notes it repeats clash with the other notes you are playing. The delay makes the two rhythm parts sound out of time when actually the two rhythm parts are much closer than I first thought. Perhaps at this point it may be better to switch the delay off on the clean rhythm?

With all the delay it means there is far too much going on when the lead comes in. Some of the string bends are out of tune, but hey, on the positive side the faster bits of the lead line you played were executed cleaner than on some of your other recordings, hence, you must be improving which is more than I can say of my playing of late.

Hope this doesn’t seem too harsh, but I thought I'd try not to dress it up and give you an honest opinion that might help.

CJ

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Re: new recording (updated song, second song added, link fixed)
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2008, 12:23:55 AM »
Working now and I just listened to B.A.Y

You can hear you are improving as the rhythm part is picked more cleanly than some of your earlier recordings
I think some issues stem from each individual part clashing with the other when they all come in.
This is partly caused by the delay. The clean rhythm part and the distorted rhythm part are very similar but after about 20 seconds when the distorted part comes in over the top, the delay from the other part starts to create some discord as the notes it repeats clash with the other notes you are playing. The delay makes the two rhythm parts sound out of time when actually the two rhythm parts are much closer than I first thought. Perhaps at this point it may be better to switch the delay off on the clean rhythm?

With all the delay it means there is far too much going on when the lead comes in. Some of the string bends are out of tune, but hey, on the positive side the faster bits of the lead line you played were executed cleaner than on some of your other recordings, hence, you must be improving which is more than I can say of my playing of late.

Hope this doesn’t seem too harsh, but I thought I'd try not to dress it up and give you an honest opinion that might help.


hey, thanks very much for taking the time to listen to the song and give me some feedback. i actually originally had the clean part recorded with no delay, and then went back and added in a delay using Audacity. i get what you mean about the delay making it sound out of timing. i added it in because i thought without it it sounded a bit too boring, but i guess it just gave me more problems. the original clean part and the distorted part over top of it are exactly the same, actually.

overall i'm really not all too happy with B.A.Y., i'm not sure exactly what, but i feel i need to change something. i was hoping that it would at least demonstrate my progress.

i'd also appreciate it if you could listen to B.A.Y. II. i like this one much better, and to my ears, i think its played a lot better and goes together a lot better.

and no worries on the criticism. i wouldn't be the least bit upset if you told me i was the worst player you've ever heard, as long as you gave some tips for improving.

CJ

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Re: new recording (updated song, second song added, link fixed)
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2008, 03:01:20 AM »
B.A.Y. II has been changed, with, what i hope, a cool ending to the song. its by far the most complicated thing i've tried to write and record, with a lot of multi-tracking/overdubbing- for me at least. so, with that in mind, i know its not near perfect or in timing, but let me know what you think.

Matt77

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Re: new recording (updated song, second song added, link fixed)
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2008, 01:10:21 PM »
Ok I've had a good listen to B.A.Y II.

This is a long post and I might come across as arrogant, it really isn’t meant to patronise in any way.
I'm actually studying theory at home today so this is actually a really useful exercise for me in preparation for a music theory lesson I’m having next week.
It would be wrong of me to presume my ideas are going to help as I’m not the world’s most gifted guitarist or most knowledgeable musical theorist, but I can get along ok.

Technique will get better as time goes by, but I think compositional ability is always what makes the distinction between a good technical guitarist and a great musician.

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Looking at just the first half of the piece I can hear the following chord progression.

A 5 add 9 (A, E and B)
G 6           (G, B, D, E)
C Maj 9th (C, D, E, G, B)
B sus 4     (B, E, F#)

That is quite a nice choice of chords and there are loads of options to play over them

Looking at that first half, you run through that progression twice and then on the 3rd and 4th time add the lead over the top

I think when it comes to simple melody, the notes that you play on the first beat of a chord are the most important as they really highlight the harmony.

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I’ll give you specific examples from the point when the lead comes in after about 40seconds.

Over the first beat of the A 5 add 9 you bend the string from D to E (A, E and B) The D adds some tension as it is the 4th which kind of implies an A minor 11th.

Over the first beat of the G 6 you bend down from E to D; that sounds fine because it’s all chord tones from the G6’s (G, B, D, E)

Over the first beat of the C Maj 9th you slide up from F to G. C Maj 9th has (C, D, E, G, B) F can cause a bit of a clash as it is very close to E; although, only briefly, you can see that’s a lot of different notes playing at the same time which kind of creates tension.

Over the first beat of the B sus 4 you play a D, which is very close to the E and again causes tension with the (B, E, F#) I would stick with B, E or F# or if you still wanted to include the D perhaps incorporate it in an e minor 7th arpeggio.

The second time the A 5 add 9 comes round you play G then A then G which is fine as you are going from the 7th to the root and back

The second time the G 6 comes round you bend down from C to B. The C clashes a bit with the B as it’s so close.

The second time the C Maj 9th comes round you bend from D to E which is like going from the 2nd or 9th to the 3rd. The bend is a bit out of tune but you can work on that easily, just make sure if are bending with your 3rd finger you have the 1st and 2nd finger behind it on the same string to give you more strength and control.

The second time the B sus 4 comes round you play some Ds, Bs and As which are the 3rd, the root and the 7threspectively. Any sus 4 chord never has a third in it, so I would probably avoid the 3rd just to allow the chord you are playing over to come through more.


What I noticed straight away was that you are picking notes for the lead that are not wrong, they are in the right key, but you have a tendency to home in on notes that increase tension which is rarely resolved from a musical perspective. This can be a good thing, but in the context of this piece the rhythm is gentle and melodic and the tension in the lead doesn’t quite fit.

--------------------

So what would I do? Hmmm…
Some options that spring to mind….

I’d look at the notes in all the chords. All of them contain B and E, so I’d think of the scales diatonic to the key that really emphasise those notes. I could improvise with an E minor scale all day over that, but it may get me out of a rut if I tried noodling around with B Phrygian.

I often practice by playing one note over each chord change until I get a feel for the way each one contrasts with the root note of the chord.
I would listen to the progression 4 times whilst playing one note over each chord. The first time round I would play the root note of each chord, the second I’d play the 7th note in relation to each chord, the third time I’d play the 5th and the final time I’d play the thirds. By contrasting each note with the chord this way it forces me to build a melody that flows with the rhythm of the piece.  Just ask if you don’t know how to work these notes out.

Personally I would consider splitting the bar with the B sus 4 so the first half is B sus 4 and then for the second half of the bar play a B7. This is effectively switching briefly to E harmonic minor. This makes the A5 add 9 that follows sound more like ‘home’. For the lead you could bend the 11th fret on the E string up to the twelfth or vice versa, that would emphasise the D# which is the only difference between E harmonic minor and E natural minor. You could also play an F# diminished arpeggio or a G augmented 5th arpeggio which is very similar and both contain that important D#.

-----------------

I’ve mentioned lots of theoretical stuff but I’ve noticed from your posts you are well aware of all your scales.
Just ask if you want me to explain anything.

Don’t worry if this stuff doesn’t come straight away it takes ages of practice before it becomes second nature.
Just remember there are no rights and wrongs in music but learning theory helps work out why something sounds like it does and I think it makes it easier to replicate things quicker.


CJ

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Re: new recording (updated song, second song added, link fixed)
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2008, 01:09:24 AM »
first of all, thanks not only for taking the time to listen, but for taking your time to write out that long post in trying to help me out.
i don't quite understand everything you said, but i understand the idea. i was more focused on just playing a solo in the right key and in the right timing. i never really thought about how different notes would sound over other ones.
i understand what you said about how my solo kind of built tension rather than went along with the easy melody that was underneath it. which version did you listen to? did you hear the new version? i think maybe it kind of sounds alright now. it goes from a smooth, easy melody, and then the solo kind of builds the tension to the heavier, faster part that ends the song.

i will also re-do the solo though, and try to take your ideas into consideration and see what i can come up with. i'll be getting home from college tomorrow, so i'll probably just re-do the whole thing with my real setup.

_tom_

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Re: new recording (updated song, second song added, link fixed)
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2008, 09:23:12 AM »
Not really a fan of the intro, maybe with some drums or something it would be a lot better, it just sort of drags for me at the minute. Other than that I'd say work on your bending and vibrato, it sounds quite off in a few places. Much better than previous recordings I've heard from you though :)

CJ

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Re: new recording (updated song, second song added, link fixed)
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2008, 01:42:12 PM »
Not really a fan of the intro, maybe with some drums or something it would be a lot better, it just sort of drags for me at the minute. Other than that I'd say work on your bending and vibrato, it sounds quite off in a few places. Much better than previous recordings I've heard from you though :)

thanks. improvement is all you can hope for. i'm not expecting to suddenly be great at guitar. just a little improvement at a time. which song did you listen to/ are you talking about tom? the first or second?