Has anything actully designed specifically for metal every been any good?

[FernandoDuarte]

they get the job done like a ninja on crack.

Almost peeying on my pants laughing :lol:

[Nolly]

Blackmachines

Interestingly, they were never designed to be specifically metal guitars, though it's very clear that they are extremely well suited to the job.

But yes, I have to disagree with the OP and say that there are a hell of a lot of specific metal products that are very very good pieces of kit.

[dheim]

I really hate the headstock. But I tollerate it because they get the job done like a ninja on crack.
Save my custom. Irritatingly enough that has an ESP rip off headstock. Or maybe ESP ripped it off. In any case, they elected not to put their silly headstock on superstrats.

i can't imagine how silly would look a superstrat with a V headstock... the original caddy is very unbalanced, but an even more plain design with such a winged slab of wood in the wrong end of the guitar would look really ridiculous...

[dheim]

it's the second time i hear of blackmachines in my life... and it's the second time in half an hour that i say they're one of the sexiest THINGS i saw recently (girls are in a different league, of course... :))

[Philosoful]

Haha, spot on to the above.

To thread starter, I think you've got a point, there's a horrible stereotype of metal = gain + treble + repeat. Thing is, alot of metal bands are all about being immensely tight where they have so much going on, like a few Death Metal bands who vere from the above stereotype, say Nile/Hate Eternal for example.

Diezels are amazing amps and mainly metal amps. Although they can cover alot of sounds

Don't I just know it *Herbert owner* :lol: I think I will have this amp till I die presuming it doesn't ever get stolen/lost :lol:

[Sifu Ben]

Ibanez RG, end of discussion.
My Ashdown Fallen Angel is also very good (although doesn't just do metal).

[Antag]

I would agree. Overwhelmingly. I'd pop them above Jacksons too, though I've never actually played that many high end Jacksons so it's not a particularly fair comparison.

i had one high end jackson... and that's why i would NEVER buy another one in my life.

I've found top end jacksons really variable. Some are utterly delicious in all ways, some make you wonder what the big deal is for. Keep trying them out, and unless I'm insane and know nothing about guitars you should find some that make your jaw drop and you check your bank balance

Perhaps I've just been lucky - I have 6 US Jacksons & they're all gorgeous.  If I could I'd have at least 6 more.

When it comes to the high-end brands, it's more a question of taste/preference than build quality - IMO the high end Dean, ESP, Jackson are all outstanding quality.  But personally, I've always loved the feel of Jackson necks (the back contour, the compound radius, the fretwork) so I'd always choose Jackson above the others.

& FWIW, I think I met the same guy on the Dean stand at LGS, he truly was a total tool :(  Shame, but the US MLs I've played have been seriously droolsome (no interest in Razorbacks).

[dheim]

sure, ibanez is quite metal-friendly too, and makes good guitars...

[Jonny]

Wouldn't metal be at the end of the spectrum of music?

So really any amp that is pushed to the max, can be able to get metal tones. But then again I'm a loser at debates :lol:

I only like Dean Vendetta/Hardtails, I wouldn't pick up a Razorback the same way I wouldn't (for the time being) pick up a PRS Custom 24.

Plus I'm a fussy person on tremolos again, so I'd only go for a Jackson SL2H, a Horizon NT II or something like that.

[noodleplugerine]

metal oriented guitars are a different league... not only BC rich (with it's ridiculous shapes), but also Jackson, Dean, ESP and many other good or excellent brands (i listed them strictly in order of liking) focus on models with a sort of "metalhead appeal", and they make great guitars too!

Out of interest, does this mean you rate Deans above ESPs?

I do. By far.

Care to give a reason?

I've never played a Dean that I'd go anywhere near, gaudy and horrible... Including the 4.5k US Custom shop Razorback which is imo one of the worst playing guitars I've ever picked up.

Not to mention the Dean guy who was running the stand was a total knobhead. (This was at LGS).

Ive never played a dean that didnt hit WELL above its price in build and acoustic tone, and the opposite istrue of ESPs, both the 'real' esps and ltds. I have a custom shop dean thats a positively $%&#ing shiteeeeee hot guitar, (not custom built for me, but its a long story). Dean stock hardware is good, even on budget stuff, and the pickups are really excellent. I cant say any of that for anything but ful on ESP, and after playing more LTDs than I care to think about I would have to be paid to own one. The £800+ stuff is bested by £300 stuff from dean, and other manufacturers.

YMMV, but thats my experience.

Now, care to give a reason that you think ESPs are better?

Reading those posts it just seems like you have a hate for LTD, and I allways think of ESP as ESP, so that might be the first part of my confusion.

And about them being overpriced... A MII costs about 1100, and competes with US Jacksons costing FAR more, my horizon costs 1300 in shops, and with the floyd rose about 1400 or 1500, and it easily competes with a US SL1/2, which again is alot more expensive. I think they're the best value guitars in the high end "metal brands" market - well, you get the most change from 2k, that's for sure.

Their signature guitars (the KH2 for example) are alot more expensive, but alot of them are just the standard models with different inlays, so are easily avoided.

It's funny cos everything you've written about ESP sounds like what I'd post about Dean...

Though really, it matters little since I don't own any LTDs, and probably never will. The 1000 series LTDs are amazing, and can be got for very little (the horizon model was being sold at 500 quid recently) and the ones I've played are about as close to jappo ESPs, US Jacksons, etc as I've seen in Indo/Korea.

But the 400 series and under, I would agree aren't good guitars (at least the ones I've played.)

Although I do feel that they're better than the Dean equivalents, which in my experience have been absolultely shockingly awful... Especially my attempts to try a Dean Vendetta a couple of years ago, easily the worst of all the similar guitars in the price range. I ended up getting an Ibanez, but really I should have got a Schecter, these are the 2 brands I feel dominate the low end market.

[MDV]

I would agree. Overwhelmingly. I'd pop them above Jacksons too, though I've never actually played that many high end Jacksons so it's not a particularly fair comparison.

i had one high end jackson... and that's why i would NEVER buy another one in my life.

I've found top end jacksons really variable. Some are utterly delicious in all ways, some make you wonder what the big deal is for. Keep trying them out, and unless I'm insane and know nothing about guitars you should find some that make your jaw drop and you check your bank balance

Perhaps I've just been lucky - I have 6 US Jacksons & they're all gorgeous.  If I could I'd have at least 6 more.

When it comes to the high-end brands, it's more a question of taste/preference than build quality - IMO the high end Dean, ESP, Jackson are all outstanding quality.  But personally, I've always loved the feel of Jackson necks (the back contour, the compound radius, the fretwork) so I'd always choose Jackson above the others.

& FWIW, I think I met the same guy on the Dean stand at LGS, he truly was a total tool :(  Shame, but the US MLs I've played have been seriously droolsome (no interest in Razorbacks).

Well, I've played perhaps 7 or 8 total and 3 stick out in memory - two really, really nice soloists and one really dead, lifeless and thin sounding soloist.

I own, and love, a DX1 (now discontinued, but was the top end MIJ model at the time ('98)). It was my main guitar for a really long time, including my most formative years as a player, so its neck and feel in general is pretty much the definition of playable to me.

[MDV]

metal oriented guitars are a different league... not only BC rich (with it's ridiculous shapes), but also Jackson, Dean, ESP and many other good or excellent brands (i listed them strictly in order of liking) focus on models with a sort of "metalhead appeal", and they make great guitars too!

Out of interest, does this mean you rate Deans above ESPs?

I do. By far.

Care to give a reason?

I've never played a Dean that I'd go anywhere near, gaudy and horrible... Including the 4.5k US Custom shop Razorback which is imo one of the worst playing guitars I've ever picked up.

Not to mention the Dean guy who was running the stand was a total knobhead. (This was at LGS).

Ive never played a dean that didnt hit WELL above its price in build and acoustic tone, and the opposite istrue of ESPs, both the 'real' esps and ltds. I have a custom shop dean thats a positively $%&#ing shiteeeeeee hot guitar, (not custom built for me, but its a long story). Dean stock hardware is good, even on budget stuff, and the pickups are really excellent. I cant say any of that for anything but ful on ESP, and after playing more LTDs than I care to think about I would have to be paid to own one. The £800+ stuff is bested by £300 stuff from dean, and other manufacturers.

YMMV, but thats my experience.

Now, care to give a reason that you think ESPs are better?

Reading those posts it just seems like you have a hate for LTD, and I allways think of ESP as ESP, so that might be the first part of my confusion.

And about them being overpriced... A MII costs about 1100, and competes with US Jacksons costing FAR more, my horizon costs 1300 in shops, and with the floyd rose about 1400 or 1500, and it easily competes with a US SL1/2, which again is alot more expensive. I think they're the best value guitars in the high end "metal brands" market - well, you get the most change from 2k, that's for sure.

Their signature guitars (the KH2 for example) are alot more expensive, but alot of them are just the standard models with different inlays, so are easily avoided.

It's funny cos everything you've written about ESP sounds like what I'd post about Dean...

Though really, it matters little since I don't own any LTDs, and probably never will. The 1000 series LTDs are amazing, and can be got for very little (the horizon model was being sold at 500 quid recently) and the ones I've played are about as close to jappo ESPs, US Jacksons, etc as I've seen in Indo/Korea.

But the 400 series and under, I would agree aren't good guitars (at least the ones I've played.)

Although I do feel that they're better than the Dean equivalents, which in my experience have been absolultely shockingly awful... Especially my attempts to try a Dean Vendetta a couple of years ago, easily the worst of all the similar guitars in the price range. I ended up getting an Ibanez, but really I should have got a Schecter, these are the 2 brands I feel dominate the low end market.

Really, the hardware is a secondary consideration for me. The main things I look at in a guitar, by far and away, are the build quality and acoustic tone. You can change everything else. And I have never, not once, been impressed in those regards (at the same time) by an ESP or LTD. I've seen good build (on very expensive LTDs and all ESPs), but I've never been impressed by the acoustic sound. They're muddy or they're thin or they're honky. It strikes me that they spend all their budget on looks and hardware, not woods and build.

[noodleplugerine]

metal oriented guitars are a different league... not only BC rich (with it's ridiculous shapes), but also Jackson, Dean, ESP and many other good or excellent brands (i listed them strictly in order of liking) focus on models with a sort of "metalhead appeal", and they make great guitars too!

Out of interest, does this mean you rate Deans above ESPs?

I do. By far.

Care to give a reason?

I've never played a Dean that I'd go anywhere near, gaudy and horrible... Including the 4.5k US Custom shop Razorback which is imo one of the worst playing guitars I've ever picked up.

Not to mention the Dean guy who was running the stand was a total knobhead. (This was at LGS).

Ive never played a dean that didnt hit WELL above its price in build and acoustic tone, and the opposite istrue of ESPs, both the 'real' esps and ltds. I have a custom shop dean thats a positively $%&#ing shiteeeeeeee hot guitar, (not custom built for me, but its a long story). Dean stock hardware is good, even on budget stuff, and the pickups are really excellent. I cant say any of that for anything but ful on ESP, and after playing more LTDs than I care to think about I would have to be paid to own one. The £800+ stuff is bested by £300 stuff from dean, and other manufacturers.

YMMV, but thats my experience.

Now, care to give a reason that you think ESPs are better?

Reading those posts it just seems like you have a hate for LTD, and I allways think of ESP as ESP, so that might be the first part of my confusion.

And about them being overpriced... A MII costs about 1100, and competes with US Jacksons costing FAR more, my horizon costs 1300 in shops, and with the floyd rose about 1400 or 1500, and it easily competes with a US SL1/2, which again is alot more expensive. I think they're the best value guitars in the high end "metal brands" market - well, you get the most change from 2k, that's for sure.

Their signature guitars (the KH2 for example) are alot more expensive, but alot of them are just the standard models with different inlays, so are easily avoided.

It's funny cos everything you've written about ESP sounds like what I'd post about Dean...

Though really, it matters little since I don't own any LTDs, and probably never will. The 1000 series LTDs are amazing, and can be got for very little (the horizon model was being sold at 500 quid recently) and the ones I've played are about as close to jappo ESPs, US Jacksons, etc as I've seen in Indo/Korea.

But the 400 series and under, I would agree aren't good guitars (at least the ones I've played.)

Although I do feel that they're better than the Dean equivalents, which in my experience have been absolultely shockingly awful... Especially my attempts to try a Dean Vendetta a couple of years ago, easily the worst of all the similar guitars in the price range. I ended up getting an Ibanez, but really I should have got a Schecter, these are the 2 brands I feel dominate the low end market.

Really, the hardware is a secondary consideration for me. The main things I look at in a guitar, by far and away, are the build quality and acoustic tone. You can change everything else. And I have never, not once, been impressed in those regards (at the same time) by an ESP or LTD. I've seen good build (on very expensive LTDs and all ESPs), but I've never been impressed by the acoustic sound. They're muddy or they're thin or they're honky. It strikes me that they spend all their budget on looks and hardware, not woods and build.

That's it.

Next time there's a London meetup I'm bringing my Horizon.

WE'LL SETTLE THIS IN A DUEL.

:D

[MDV]

metal oriented guitars are a different league... not only BC rich (with it's ridiculous shapes), but also Jackson, Dean, ESP and many other good or excellent brands (i listed them strictly in order of liking) focus on models with a sort of "metalhead appeal", and they make great guitars too!

Out of interest, does this mean you rate Deans above ESPs?

I do. By far.

Care to give a reason?

I've never played a Dean that I'd go anywhere near, gaudy and horrible... Including the 4.5k US Custom shop Razorback which is imo one of the worst playing guitars I've ever picked up.

Not to mention the Dean guy who was running the stand was a total knobhead. (This was at LGS).

Ive never played a dean that didnt hit WELL above its price in build and acoustic tone, and the opposite istrue of ESPs, both the 'real' esps and ltds. I have a custom shop dean thats a positively $%&#ing shiteeeeeeeee hot guitar, (not custom built for me, but its a long story). Dean stock hardware is good, even on budget stuff, and the pickups are really excellent. I cant say any of that for anything but ful on ESP, and after playing more LTDs than I care to think about I would have to be paid to own one. The £800+ stuff is bested by £300 stuff from dean, and other manufacturers.

YMMV, but thats my experience.

Now, care to give a reason that you think ESPs are better?

Reading those posts it just seems like you have a hate for LTD, and I allways think of ESP as ESP, so that might be the first part of my confusion.

And about them being overpriced... A MII costs about 1100, and competes with US Jacksons costing FAR more, my horizon costs 1300 in shops, and with the floyd rose about 1400 or 1500, and it easily competes with a US SL1/2, which again is alot more expensive. I think they're the best value guitars in the high end "metal brands" market - well, you get the most change from 2k, that's for sure.

Their signature guitars (the KH2 for example) are alot more expensive, but alot of them are just the standard models with different inlays, so are easily avoided.

It's funny cos everything you've written about ESP sounds like what I'd post about Dean...

Though really, it matters little since I don't own any LTDs, and probably never will. The 1000 series LTDs are amazing, and can be got for very little (the horizon model was being sold at 500 quid recently) and the ones I've played are about as close to jappo ESPs, US Jacksons, etc as I've seen in Indo/Korea.

But the 400 series and under, I would agree aren't good guitars (at least the ones I've played.)

Although I do feel that they're better than the Dean equivalents, which in my experience have been absolultely shockingly awful... Especially my attempts to try a Dean Vendetta a couple of years ago, easily the worst of all the similar guitars in the price range. I ended up getting an Ibanez, but really I should have got a Schecter, these are the 2 brands I feel dominate the low end market.

Really, the hardware is a secondary consideration for me. The main things I look at in a guitar, by far and away, are the build quality and acoustic tone. You can change everything else. And I have never, not once, been impressed in those regards (at the same time) by an ESP or LTD. I've seen good build (on very expensive LTDs and all ESPs), but I've never been impressed by the acoustic sound. They're muddy or they're thin or they're honky. It strikes me that they spend all their budget on looks and hardware, not woods and build.

That's it.

Next time there's a London meetup I'm bringing my Horizon.

WE'LL SETTLE THIS IN A DUEL.

:D

:lol:

Your horizon Vs my custom

ITS ON!!!

[FernandoDuarte]

That's it.
Next time there's a London meetup I'm bringing my Horizon.

WE'LL SETTLE THIS IN A DUEL.
:D

:lol:

Your horizon Vs my custom

ITS ON!!!

The one who lost SHALL be destroyed :twisted:
:lol: