NGD! (Blackmachine B6)

[gwEm]

bit disappointing to see its string-through-back-of-bridge rather than string-through-body though.

[Nolly]

bit disappointing to see its string-through-back-of-bridge rather than string-through-body though.

I've spoken with Doug about the string-through argument, and he maintains there is absolutely no difference in tone or sustain. In this case, it's another building process that can be dropped in order to keep the build time as short as possible. He's even built a few of his custom instruments without string-through bridges:

[gwEm]

bit disappointing to see its string-through-back-of-bridge rather than string-through-body though.

I've spoken with Doug about the string-through argument, and he maintains there is absolutely no difference in tone or sustain. In this case, it's another building process that can be dropped in order to keep the build time as short as possible. He's even built a few of his custom instruments without string-through bridges:

and whats your personal opinion on the matter, comparing the B6 and B2? (and how much cheaper is the new version by the way?)

[Nolly]

and whats your personal opinion on the matter, comparing the B6 and B2? (and how much cheaper is the new version by the way?)

Put it this way, the only guitar I would choose over the B6 would be the B2. Both are fantastic, but there's something magical about the rosewood necked Blackmachines, they allow so much less dissipation of energy through neck-movement, and it's a very audible difference in sustain and richness of harmonics. The B6 slays every other humbucking guitar I've owned or played though, it's fat enough to make a Les Paul hang it's head in shame, yet keeps so much clarity and punch. The fact that you can have it made with any pickups is a huge consideration too, no upgrading needed, plus I bet that with lower output pickups it could be a classic rock beast, and with c-pigs, it'd probably kill you.

As far as price goes, the initial run was priced at £1050, which doesn't include certain upgrades like distressed covers, locking tuners, straplocks, coil-splitting etc. As for the price when it starts production proper, I'll just quote my previous post:

'I really can't confirm the price of/available options for the B6 when/if they start production. When the price was set at £1050 for the initial run, it was based on using Idigbo as the body wood. Doug found a source of quality swamp ash for only a bit more, and by means of apology for their completion being delayed (Doug was out of action for two months after breaking a couple of ribs in a motorbike accident), used that instead as he considers it a higher-quality tonewood. In all likelihood, any further B6s will also be made from swamp ash, but the price will reflect the upgrade, plus the fact that Doug mainly sources his woods from the US, so may have to increase his prices if the exchange rate doesn't get any better for us (though obviously the guitar will become less affordable for Americans by the same token).
Also, remember that many of the standard options on the custom models are optional extras on the B6 (camo covers, locking tuners, straplocks, coil-splitting). Any model of Bare Knuckle, Hauessel, Lundgren, DiMarzio, Seymour Duncan, or EMG is covered in the base cost though.'

[gwEm]

it sounds like you are very happy with your blackmachine!

i don't think the look is my thing, but with all the recent interest here in blackmachines, and your glowing praise, i'd really like to try one and see what all the fuss is about

[Lew]

Sweet guitar, I never understood the string through body is better for tone argument. Surely the break angle is what makes the difference?

[WezV]

Sweet guitar, I never understood the string through body is better for tone argument. Surely the break angle is what makes the difference?

The break angle on a rear loading bridge is less than a string through bridge... so if you say break angle makes a difference then you would see that same differnce on a string through.  I must admit i like the fact the strings are anchored all teh way through the body.

I am not sure about this string through having no tonal difference idea... to me it does, but also plays a role in tension as well. 

I know it can make a big difference in basses and have A/B'd them since some bass bridges come with the option to rear load or string through. ok, it may be psychoacoustic but i  think i do hear a difference.  Its really noticeable on 5 string, 34" scale basses... lets assume average gauge strings.  Rear loaded that low B can sound like wet fart, string it through the body and it starts to regain its clarity... thats definetly not psychoacoustic, the difference is too great to write it off as just hearing what i expected to hear

OK, thats basses so maybe not applicable in the same way.  I have never really had a guitar i could A/B the two ways of stringing on, i know doug will have tried it thoroughly though... but that idea still might take me a while to get my head around.  I suppose even if it was true for some guitars that it made a difference, there may be other features on Dougs that mean the difference is lessened.

just thinking out loud again really, i should just drill out a body/guitar bridge and see for myself!

[bobthemerciful]

I must say, I've been fortunate enough to play 2 of the 3 F8's that are on Doug's site, and both had absolute, almost piano-like clarity on the F# and B strings. I hadn't even noticed that one wasn't string-thru til I looked at the pic Nolly posted, was just enjoying an amazing instrument. Had to go back to Doug's site to check it was one of those that I tried. Maybe it's more noticeable on a bass cos of the extremely low frequencies??
Never built a guitar so only guessing. Knowing Doug as I do tho, if he says there is no difference for his guitars I'm inclined to believe him  :)

Wez, your stuff looks very interesting too, would love to try one.

Nolly, you're a very lucky man. Good luck with a singer so I can get to hear it live!!

BTW I tried the 884 first which was string-thru, and the stunning maple topped F8 which no picture can do justice to  :D (Which isn't)

[Lew]

Sweet guitar, I never understood the string through body is better for tone argument. Surely the break angle is what makes the difference?

The break angle on a rear loading bridge is less than a string through bridge... so if you say break angle makes a difference then you would see that same differnce on a string through.  I must admit i like the fact the strings are anchored all teh way through the body.

I am not sure about this string through having no tonal difference idea... to me it does, but also plays a role in tension as well. 

I know it can make a big difference in basses and have A/B'd them since some bass bridges come with the option to rear load or string through. ok, it may be psychoacoustic but i  think i do hear a difference.  Its really noticeable on 5 string, 34" scale basses... lets assume average gauge strings.  Rear loaded that low B can sound like wet fart, string it through the body and it starts to regain its clarity... thats definetly not psychoacoustic, the difference is too great to write it off as just hearing what i expected to hear

OK, thats basses so maybe not applicable in the same way.  I have never really had a guitar i could A/B the two ways of stringing on, i know doug will have tried it thoroughly though... but that idea still might take me a while to get my head around.  I suppose even if it was true for some guitars that it made a difference, there may be other features on Dougs that mean the difference is lessened.

just thinking out loud again really, i should just drill out a body/guitar bridge and see for myself!

Exactly what I'm saying, people talk about it as if the string passing through the actual body wood makes for a better tone.

[WezV]

its a whole complex argument though, people saying 'its the strings going through the body' is just as valid as saying 'its the extra break angle'... neither is usefull without proof

my own ideas and experiments tell me extra string length plays an important role, especially in the 5 string bass example i said above.  I believe its the extra length provided by stringing through the body that helps the low B work better... i tested this by extending the string behind a top loading bridge with a short length of brass tubing and most of the effects of stringing through the body were there. 

Like i say though, i havnt done it with guitars yet... i might try the brass tubing behind a top loader first.... now do i actually still have any top loading bridges around here still :?

[Nolly]

it sounds like you are very happy with your blackmachine!

i don't think the look is my thing, but with all the recent interest here in blackmachines, and your glowing praise, i'd really like to try one and see what all the fuss is about

Sure, I can understand that the superstrat-style body (though actually, it's half tele, half strat but hey) and aesthetics won't be to everyone's taste. Definitely worth trying though, even if you decide it isn't for you.

I'll stay out of the debate on string-through bridges, as I don't really have anything to add :)

Thanks for the support bobthemerciful, hopefully we'll find the right guy for the job soon!

[AdamB]

I think all of Dougs work is amazing from what i've seen/heard. The super strat style isn't really my thing, but it not all he does, it's just what's most popular from what i can tell