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Author Topic: Overdrive/Distortion pedals  (Read 11277 times)

JDC

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Re: Overdrive/Distortion pedals
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2009, 07:57:08 PM »
I only really know about tube screamer type pedals but my understanding of how they give a tighter sound is they boost the mids going into the amp and so they get more distorted than the bass frequencies, I really don't understand why they recommended a distortion pedal unless it can be used as a boost with a mid hump

have you tried the TS9 model on your GNX3000? I've only used modeller based tube screamers but I tend to set them as gain 0, tone between 12 and 3 o'clock, volume on full

Bob Johnson

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Re: Overdrive/Distortion pedals
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2009, 09:41:55 PM »
If you want something that will overdrive your pre-amp without losing any of your guitar's identity with optional, switchable diode clipping for a little distortion, email tom@legraguitars.co.uk He's working on some stuff that could be just what you need.
Regards,
Bob Johnson
Legra Guitars

yellowv

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Re: Overdrive/Distortion pedals
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2009, 04:31:25 AM »
use any tubescreamer type. I personally use a maxon od808. Should get you right up to modern metal.

You know the band nile? they use dsl100's. ;)

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=U4k2kFQn5WA

Yeah but they use the Marshalls as poweramps and use seperate preamps. I believe they use Peavey Rockmasters as preamps. Which are a discontinued preamp that really kick ass. They can be had pretty cheap as well.
Painkiller , Holy Diver, Cold Sweat and Miracle Man Set

Zaned

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Re: Overdrive/Distortion pedals
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2009, 06:50:22 AM »

1) If an overdrive pedal is designed to push an amp's drive channels further, why did it work better on the clean channel?


That's probably because on the gain channel your tone is already compressed. Meaning that you have less headroom and hence the perceived effect is smaller, both in volume boost and in frequency spectrum change.

Now try this comparison: first try your 'normal' tone, then back off the gain (on the amp) a couple of notches, and bring in the pedal. Set the pedals volume (assuming an overdrive pedal) so that you again reach the same level of distortion as with your normal tone.

If you're using a typical tube screamer clone, you'll have a little-to-a-lot tighter tone. Depends on the amp. TS-type pedals usually lose some of the bass once you turn them on, and that has a tightening effect too. I'm not an expert on amp electronics so I don't know how much a tightening effect the volume boost has. Might be because you tend to use less gain on the amp and hence the tone is tighter there. I just use what my ears like :)

-Zaned
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Tom Johnson

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Re: Overdrive/Distortion pedals
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2009, 12:06:15 PM »
In order to help understand why the distortion/overdrive pedal makes little difference to your dirty channel and makes a world of difference to your clean channel you need to consider where in the signal path the distortion is occuring. It will be very difficult to achieve the sound of a dual/triple/whatever valve rectifier by distorting and/or increasing the input signal and running it through the dirty channel of your DSL.

Generally your existing high-gain channel will be shaping the tone a LOT, probably close to brick-wall processing. Especially at high gain settings you will tend to notice any signal modulation before the amp less and less. The ultra high gain amplifiers that you're looking to replicate have many gain stages to build-up the levels and tones of distortion. By putting a booster/overdrive box infront of the preamp stage will boost the signal into the first stage in your dirty channel and provide more distortion, but if it saturates this first stage there is nothing more that the amp can do with the altered signal. It will just take this much dirtier clipped signal and do the same processing to it in the remaining stages, resulting in a very similar sound to before. (note: this a very crude approximation, it's not the place for amplifier theory)

What needs to be realised is manufacturers of pedals have been making all these high gain distortion boxes for exactly this reason. They are to roughly emulate the style of high gain amp stages, to be played into a clean or moderately dirty channel. The trouble again is they very heavily shape the sound, but it's the only way to do it. If you don't shape the sound the result is just a mess of unwanted harmonics and unpleasant distorted frequencies. That is why there is such a multitude of different pedals out there, even by the same manufacturer (ie Boss).

Alternatively you can do what some people here are suggesting and buy 2 different boosters/preamps where one will drive the other into distortion, pretty much what is done in a distortion box anyway but essentially it adds a couple of very controllable gain stages infront of amplifier, giving you a little more scope.

As to the question of which pedal? I can't give a recommendation. Majority of guitarist will buy and sell pedals very regularly in search for the holy tone or on other peoples recommendations. Remember it'll never sound like it does on the record anyway, you need an entire production suite to do that  :)

i hope that helps a bit in the understanding of it all. There is no magic answer :)

regards,

Tom Johnson
Legra Guitars

99_not_out

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Re: Overdrive/Distortion pedals
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2009, 12:18:18 PM »
I never knew all that, but makes perfect sense now you describe it so well! Useful info!
... and welcome to the forum :)
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Doadman

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Re: Overdrive/Distortion pedals
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2009, 10:52:52 PM »
Now that was VERY helpful and I do feel that I understand it a bit better now. Furthermore, it makes sense based on my experience. When I tried the Boss OS-2 on the DSL it was into the amp's most distorted channel and the gain was set to about 6 or 7 (if I push it much further it tends to go a bit too fizzy). The gain on the pedal was also a fair way up so what I ended up with was a level of distortion that was tighter but essentially similar to where I started. If I am reading this correctly, I need to use the volume controls on the amp to drive the tubes and back the gain right down, using the pedal to feed gain into the system instead.

I think that this must mean that to get really heavy distortion I probably don't want an overdrive pedal at all, but a distortion pedal instead. This must be why Digitech suggested the Hardwire Metal Distortion pedal and when I contacted Seymour Duncan yesterday, they came straight back with a suggestion of the Twin Tube Mayhem. I have no idea what is a good distortion pedal so I suppose these two are a good place to start and obviously I'd welcome anyone elses thoughts. In an ideal world it would be great to have one pedal that does it all for distortion but I suspect that this isn't possible. No doubt I will ultimately end up with both an overdrive and distortion pedal to achieve the fullest range of tones.

richardjmorgan

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Re: Overdrive/Distortion pedals
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2009, 01:21:36 PM »
Something I've been contemplating trying is putting one of the blackstar distortion pedals in front of my JCM900. Anyone got any views as to whether this is a good idea or not? My alternative option is trying to find a 5150 going cheap.

dave_mc

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Re: Overdrive/Distortion pedals
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2009, 05:07:57 PM »
No doubt I will ultimately end up with both an overdrive and distortion pedal to achieve the fullest range of tones.

yeah, probably. there's a lot of guff going round a lot of the forums (you know where i mean) that you should ONLY use an overdrive with a tube amp as it preserves more of the natural tone of your guitar and amp (which is retarded for a couple of reasons, not least that if you really want it to be transparent a clean boost would be a better call), but if an overdrive into your amp doesn't give you what you want in terms of tone and gain, then it's a bit daft to buy one.

:)

Doadman

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Re: Overdrive/Distortion pedals
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2009, 07:37:36 PM »
I'm thinking that for high gain sounds I'll maybe save up and get a Seymour Duncan Twin Tube Mayhem as that seems to be a bit like a Metal Muff on steroids and then maybe buy an overdrive pedal to tighten up the distortion on the sounds I use with lower levels of distortion. This might be for more Blues/Rock type tones. I was thinking of a Bad Monkey for this as there seem to be a few of them quite cheap on Ebay but I wondered if there might be a better option for that Blues style sound. Any suggestions welcome.

The Sorbz

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Re: Overdrive/Distortion pedals
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2009, 08:02:30 PM »
The BYOC (build your own clone) series are excellent in terms of value and quality of components. They use very top quality components. If you can build it yourself they are VERY good value for money. If you can't, then buying them ready made is still pretty good value in my book.

BYOC effects are fantastic value and sound much better than mass-produced stuff. You can then modify them and look at other clone makers like General Guitar Gadgets.

Doadman

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Re: Overdrive/Distortion pedals
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2009, 01:43:05 AM »
Well, I've started the process now. I found a Digitech Bad Monkey brand new for £32 and figured I couldn't go wrong at that. I'll use it to tighten up the amp's distortion and give it a bit of a boost and in time I'll get a full distortion pedal for the really high gain sounds.

dheim

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Re: Overdrive/Distortion pedals
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2009, 03:11:29 PM »
use any tubescreamer type. I personally use a maxon od808. Should get you right up to modern metal.

You know the band nile? they use dsl100's. ;)

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=U4k2kFQn5WA

Yeah but they use the Marshalls as poweramps and use seperate preamps. I believe they use Peavey Rockmasters as preamps. Which are a discontinued preamp that really kick ass. They can be had pretty cheap as well.

and most of all they've got the worst live sound i ever heard from a professionel band...  :?
Mule, MQ, Stockholm, CS, RY, MM, PK, ANB, CNB, AWP, CWP, PiG90...

too many? ;)

yellowv

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Re: Overdrive/Distortion pedals
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2009, 12:36:44 AM »
Nile sounded bad live? I have seen them live. They sound amazing live.
Painkiller , Holy Diver, Cold Sweat and Miracle Man Set

dheim

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Re: Overdrive/Distortion pedals
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2009, 10:39:45 AM »
Nile sounded bad live? I have seen them live. They sound amazing live.

they sounded very powerful, don't get me wrong, but i couldn't understand almost a single note, just a piercing wall of heavily scooped sounds. and that's not what i call a good live sound.
but it must have been a single unfortunate episode, maybe... it was at a festival so they could have spent too little time in soundchecks
Mule, MQ, Stockholm, CS, RY, MM, PK, ANB, CNB, AWP, CWP, PiG90...

too many? ;)