Humbucker advice

[Ian Price]

Evening all. Although I'm not new to the world of BKP I am new to BKP HB's and am in need of advice.

As mentioned in an earlier post I have just acquired a rather nice signature LP. The pickups in it are pretty decent but I feel the need for some BKPs. I do have some reference tones in mind but am not sure what will get me there. Reference tones are:

ZZ Top - The whole Fandango album - especially Nasty Dogs and Funky Kings and Blue Jean Blues (for the cleanish tones)
Led Zep - Good Times Bad Times, Rock 'n' Roll, Black Dog (is it as obvious as getting a black dog set?!?!)
Aerosmith - Toys in the Attic

Any advice would be appreciated!

Cheers,

Ian.

[ericsabbath]

riff raffs

[DimeZakk]

Blackdogs and RiffRaffs jump to my mind, but from what I've heard the Mules would do that too...

[AndyR]

I've got Mules and Riff Raffs, Ian - for most of those references I'd personally reach for my Mule'd Love Rock rather than my Riff Raff'd Epi SG.

Alas, what you really want to know: "what do your Riff Raffs sound like in the Love Rock?"... I cannot tell you :D

I'm guessing that Mules is what you'll eventually want for these references, but when you first hear them you might be vaguely surprised. "PAF" doesn't quite turn out to be as "focussed" a sound as I'd always imagined it would be. But once you get used to using it, it is heavenly :D

The Riff Raffs are a little "tighter" sounding to my ears, and when I first got them, they're a lot closer to what my impression of "classic rock" sounds was... They were my favourite of the two originally. Nowadays I much prefer the Mules. For what I do, there seems to be more to them.

Blackdogs I don't know. They were nearly the first set I bought, and one day I might get me some. I understand they're darker, and I'm guessing they'd be quite tasty for ZZ Top.

Actually, MQs would do all these references rather well... but I've just got a gut feeling you're definitely after humbuckers, and I think that's the direction to go - I speak here as a fellow "fender" man who has had to put in some effort to convert to the "dark side" :D (Do bear in mind though, there's quite a lot of telecaster getting played in your references :lol:).

[Ian Price]

Do bear in mind though, there's quite a lot of telecaster getting played in your references

I've always been rubbish at hearing different guitars! I assume the tele is present on some of the Led Zep songs.

[AndyR]

Definitely on Good Times Bad Times - but I was thinking more of the ZZ Top. There's an awful lot of tele and strat on ZZ Top studio recordings. The live side of Fandango I assume is the Les Paul (and for me that's Mule territory - maybe even Black Dogs? - rather than Riff Raff), but the studio side I don't know - I'm snowed in, so I'll go listen to it :D (I'm probably not much better at it than you though!).

I do know that La Grange (the famous clean part) is a strat - I only learnt that a few months ago. It really amused me - twenty years ago, my drummer was a complete LP nut, but his frontman/leadgit (me) played a strat... he used to hold up the intro/1st-verse of La Grange as a shining example of the unique clean tone you could only get from a Les Paul!

[Ian Price]

I do know that La Grange (the famous clean part) is a strat - I only learnt that a few months ago. It really amused me - twenty years ago, my drummer was a complete LP nut, but his frontman/leadgit (me) played a strat... he used to hold up the intro/1st-verse of La Grange as a shining example of the unique clean tone you could only get from a Les Paul!

Ha! I also only learnt fairly recently that La Grange was a strat. It's mentioned in the Billy Gibbons Rock + Roll Gearhead book. I also did not realise that the solo in Stairway was a tele. That's how cr@p I am!

[Twinfan]

I didn't try many BKPs in that guitar Ian, but going from your reference tones I would say that Riff Raffs will be to 'hard' sounding for what you're after.

I wouldn't go too hot in the pickup department as you want some versatility and some cleaner tones.

I would suggest Mules or Stormy Mondays as the way to go:

Mules - better for rockier, gainier tones
Stormies - better for blusier, cleaner tones
AIV Stormies - somewhere in the middle of the above

Personally, I'd try a set of AIV Stormies as they're sweet yet clear.  My favourite BKP in an LP.

[AndyR]

What a fine, fine album Fandango is ... haven't heard it for ages, thanks for that :D

Live side - I still say Mules, but one of my Blackguarded Teles could almost pull it off with a dirty enough amp. If I was asked to impersonate this stuff though, I'd probably actually take my MQ'd Explorer with me instead of my Love Rock or teles. Definitely not Riff Raffs - I seem to use different words, but I agree with Twinfan, they'd be too "hard".

Studio side:
Nasty Dogs sounds LP-like to me. Out of what I've got, it's Mules. But there's quite a few guitars on there with different sounds to create the overall tone though, wouldn't surprise me if he's got a fender of some sort hidden in amongst it.
Blue Jean Blues, I really don't know, I've always assumed it's an LP. But out of the guitars I own at the moment, and the mood I'm in, I'd reach immediately for a telecaster to get that tone - but the solo, hmm, just a bit too much weight for a tele maybe? (and it does sound like a "one-guitar" job). I do think Twinfan could be right on the Stormies word here - but I've never tried them. Also I seem to remember Hunter doing a superb Blue Jean clip on here somewhere (what with I can't recall). How much do you use the guitar's volume/tone controls? The Mules will get you this tone, but we're talking rolling off on the guitar, not trying to find the tone on the amp with the guitar up full...
Balinese - one of my favourite ZZ Top songs - I've always assumed LP, but actually, my Flat 50 Blackguard bridge with the tone turned down on the guitar might do a better job than my Mules/Riff Raffs. I think it might even be a mixture of guitars like Nasty Dogs. The solo is definitely a fender of some sort.
Again, Mex Blackbird sounds like it's got a mixture to me... the underlying chunky rhythm I'd go for my Mules with the volume rolled off a tad on the guitar. My slide isn't really up to the BFG slide tone, but to get that sound I'd pick up my Danelectro, my fender/gibson types probably would do it, but my Dano would get me there a lot faster without too much effort.
The rhythm gits on Heard it on the X have a lot of "fendery" about them (actually the Dano would be very useful as well) - I wouldn't have known this before finding BKPs and getting all these different guitars and pups. I would have tried to get a Les Paul to do it, and wondered why it didn't have that extra "shimmer"to the sound...
Tush - MULES!! :lol:

Well I've listened to the whole album twice - a very enjoyable snowed in early morning, many thanks :D, time to put a guitar on now...

[gwEm]

perhaps i would go with mules too... although, after trying a feline lion i can report riff raffs sound alot fatter and rounded in a Les Paul than then do in an SG (or in my case a V) and will give you a nice bite

[Twinfan]

If a Billy Gibbons 'Pearly' tone is your primary aim, then a set of AII Stormies is actually the closest match.....

[Ian Price]

Hello all - I sent Tim a quick question about this and he suggested a Mule neck and a Riff Raff bridge. I must admit that when mailing him I did add a few other 'ballpark' tones to the list above.

Will hopefully be ordering them in the next month or so!

[Ian Price]

Still deliberating on what HB's to go for. It's my b'day next week so should be able to order some soon! Having read some of the responses on here I'm now not sure of the Riff Raff bridge and am curious about the AII Stormy Mondays.

Basically I will play mainly clean(ish) through the neck and dirty through the bridge. What's the opinion on a AII SM neck and a Mule Bridge combination? Would a Mule set get me there anyway and deliver a nice full clean sound on the neck or is a combo the way to go?

Cheers.

[Twinfan]

I normally go for sets, so I'd take a look at:

* Mule set:  Hotter, quite zingy and clear, best for gain
* AIV Stormy set:  Bit cooler, some zing and clear, half-way house
* AII Stormy set:  Coolest, warm and a bit softer, best for clean

Having said that, "Roland_rat" now owns my Mule bridge/AIV SM neck pair and he's very happy with it.  That was a good mix, but bear in mind I didn't play clean with them!

[Philly Q]

I don't know why I always suggest this, never having tried it  :roll: , but I like the sound of the AIV neck/AV bridge Mule set.  A bit more aggressive than the standard AIV Mules, but maybe not quite as dry as the Riff Raff at the bridge?

I think that might be what I ultimately get for my Tokai SG.