Help with noisy pedal setup.

[richardjmorgan]

If you switch the effects loop off with the setup above you'll kill your signal - no output.  You're relying on a signal always getting to the return of the effects loop.

It sounds like you need some sort of looper around the chorus/delay.  Just to make things a bit more complicated!

I was rather hoping a switchable fx loop might be the solution to my problems, but I was worried that might be the answer! The looper thing is, presumably, complicated by the fact that the chorus goes in the loop of the NS, whereas the delay has to go after.

I think what I actually need is a guy offstage pressing all my pedals for me!

[Twinfan]

That's by the far the best solution!

The way you're doing things is really odd.  If your amp is that noisy then you should get a tech to quieten it down so you don't need the noise supressor over it.  Fresh good quality valves, a re-bias and a capacitor change may be all it needs and would really simplify your rig.

[hamfist]

that the chorus goes in the loop of the NS, whereas the delay has to go after.

Richard, why can you not have the delay and chorus set up in a separate true bypass loop, after the NS ?

BTW, if you're looking for great, cheap(ish) loop pedals then go to http://www.redonionsolutions.co.uk/ . Highly recommended !

[Roobubba]

What confuses me about this setup is the NS2. In my setup (5150-II, by the way), I have an ICP decimator prorackG which has 2 channels, I think this is the source of my confusion here, because the Boss pedal my be different?.
In my case, the chain is:

Guitar - decimator channel1 - amp
Effects send (amp) - decimator channel2 - Effects return (amp)

Coupled with this, the way you've drawn the diagram has the following route:

Guitar - NS2 - Delay - Effects return

Is this an error on your diagram?

If the Boss is NOT a 2-channel noise reduction system (I don't believe it is?), then I guess it acts as a parallel switcher, and can be put in the effects loop as discussed above (ie not before the main input of the amp). If it is a 2-channel system like the Decimator, it just complicates things a bit! :)

Roo

[richardjmorgan]

As far as I understand it, ignoring the other pedals, the way things are linked up as in my diagram are:

Guitar > NS input > NS send > Amp input (i.e. preamp is in the NS loop) > amp fx loop send > NS return > NS output > amp fx loop return

The other pedals simply go in the NS loop, either before or after the preamp (i.e. going into the front or in the fx loop) and, in the case of the Delay, after the NS.

This seems to me to theoretically make sense to me, and, practically speaking,  does a pretty good job of eliminating any noisiness (other than the original issue with where I was putting the tuner), but by all means take me to task if I've bollocksed it up.

[Will]

I had a JCM900 - albeit the dual master volume 2100, and the noise was never that much of a concern. When at stage volumes its normal to have to turn volume down, have you tried it without the NS?

Or even tried just putting the NS without the loop function before the preamp, or after the preamp, but not both. If you see what I mean.
Also while we are on the topic, the loop on the 900 is parallel? how much do you mix in?

[Roobubba]

As far as I understand it, ignoring the other pedals, the way things are linked up as in my diagram are:

Guitar > NS input > NS send > Amp input (i.e. preamp is in the NS loop) > amp fx loop send > NS return > NS output > amp fx loop return

The other pedals simply go in the NS loop, either before or after the preamp (i.e. going into the front or in the fx loop) and, in the case of the Delay, after the NS.

This seems to me to theoretically make sense to me, and, practically speaking,  does a pretty good job of eliminating any noisiness (other than the original issue with where I was putting the tuner), but by all means take me to task if I've bollocksed it up.

It's probably me just not knowing how the NS pedal works, but to my simple mind, the logical signal path through the pedal would be NS IN ---> NS Out and NS Send ---> NS Return where one of those is before the preamp (the IN-OUT) and the Send-Return is in the effects loop. This is probably wrong, because I'm used to the 2-channel noise reduction system of the decimator, so feel free to completely disregard everything I say (except about telecasters and the Beatles, best heed those words well ;))

Roo

[Dmoney]

i have an NS-2 but i dont use it this way. I've heard of the idea though and ive tried it myself with some pedals run on mains and a 5150. I couldnt get my head around how it was ever meant to work.

I think the send-return is just a loop, from my experience it doesnt seem to do much. maybe im wrong. its a while since i tried it. the In-Out is the gate. I tried using the In-Out channel in the fx loop on my 5150, which did cut the preamp noise, but you had to set the threshold to a point where it just coloured the sound so badly it made the amp sound terrible.

If i use an NS-2 now i just use it as the last pedal in my chain to cut the input to the amp, which reduces the potential for horrible feedback but doesnt cut noise between the preamp and power amp stage.

i think a proper 2 channel decimator probably works differently and better.

[Roobubba]

i have an NS-2 but i dont use it this way. I've heard of the idea though and ive tried it myself with some pedals run on mains and a 5150. I couldnt get my head around how it was ever meant to work.

I think the send-return is just a loop, from my experience it doesnt seem to do much. maybe im wrong. its a while since i tried it. the In-Out is the gate. I tried using the In-Out channel in the fx loop on my 5150, which did cut the preamp noise, but you had to set the threshold to a point where it just coloured the sound so badly it made the amp sound terrible.

If i use an NS-2 now i just use it as the last pedal in my chain to cut the input to the amp, which reduces the potential for horrible feedback but doesnt cut noise between the preamp and power amp stage.

i think a proper 2 channel decimator probably works differently and better.

Indeed, the Decimator is excellent! It takes your preamp signal (which it also performs noise reduction on, quite transparently), and uses that signal to intelligently cut the noise in Channel 2 (ie leaves the guitar-derived signals mostly alone, but kills preamp noise really effectively). I'd recommend this to anyone using a high gain monster like a 5150, which can be quite noisy!

Roo

[Dmoney]

i have an NS-2 but i dont use it this way. I've heard of the idea though and ive tried it myself with some pedals run on mains and a 5150. I couldnt get my head around how it was ever meant to work.

I think the send-return is just a loop, from my experience it doesnt seem to do much. maybe im wrong. its a while since i tried it. the In-Out is the gate. I tried using the In-Out channel in the fx loop on my 5150, which did cut the preamp noise, but you had to set the threshold to a point where it just coloured the sound so badly it made the amp sound terrible.

If i use an NS-2 now i just use it as the last pedal in my chain to cut the input to the amp, which reduces the potential for horrible feedback but doesnt cut noise between the preamp and power amp stage.

i think a proper 2 channel decimator probably works differently and better.

Indeed, the Decimator is excellent! It takes your preamp signal (which it also performs noise reduction on, quite transparently), and uses that signal to intelligently cut the noise in Channel 2 (ie leaves the guitar-derived signals mostly alone, but kills preamp noise really effectively). I'd recommend this to anyone using a high gain monster like a 5150, which can be quite noisy!

Roo

i expected the NS-2 to work in a similar way. take a kind of value of the guitar input and then do something clever to work out what the added noise to that signal was and then cancel it. didnt really work that way.