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Author Topic: Valve amp died  (Read 5530 times)

tomjackson

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Valve amp died
« on: February 11, 2009, 09:10:22 PM »
Loud humming sound for 5 seconds then nothing....

The slow-Blo has popped.

Any ideas?

Twinfan

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Re: Valve amp died
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2009, 09:11:14 PM »
Power valve knackered

tomjackson

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Re: Valve amp died
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2009, 09:22:25 PM »
Cheers, I have some spares to try....

Pity I dont have a fuse :oops:

I've had power valves go before but usually they squeel/crackle/hiss, never had a complete failure, time to get some gooduns.  Not that impressed with the TAD ones that came with the amp....

jpfamps

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Re: Valve amp died
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2009, 11:38:21 AM »
Fuses, especially the anti-surge mains fuses will eventually fail, even if there is nothing wrong with the amp. You can get the correct fuses from Maplins (it's always useful to have some spares!!), or online from Rapid Electronics.

Replace the fuse and turn the amp on. Does the fuse blow? If it does turn the amp off, install a new fuse and remove the power valves. 

Turn the amp on.

If the fuse doesn't blow, then you almost certainly have a shorted power valve.

If the fuse still blows you mostly likely have a damaged power transformer and a trip to the tech is in order.

Valves can short out without any warning. I've installed brand new and tested valves into amps and had them go down in a shower of sparks as soon as the HT is applied!

HTH AMPS

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Re: Valve amp died
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2009, 09:55:41 PM »
Fuses, especially the anti-surge mains fuses will eventually fail, even if there is nothing wrong with the amp. You can get the correct fuses from Maplins (it's always useful to have some spares!!), or online from Rapid Electronics.

Replace the fuse and turn the amp on. Does the fuse blow? If it does turn the amp off, install a new fuse and remove the power valves. 

Turn the amp on.

If the fuse doesn't blow, then you almost certainly have a shorted power valve.

If the fuse still blows you mostly likely have a damaged power transformer and a trip to the tech is in order.

^ +1

some sound advice from JPF, exactly what I'd do too.

Valves can short out without any warning. I've installed brand new and tested valves into amps and had them go down in a shower of sparks as soon as the HT is applied!

I went through a bunch of JJ EL34s that did this and marked the end of my relationship with JJ output valves.


jpfamps

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Re: Valve amp died
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2009, 12:42:36 PM »
Fuses, especially the anti-surge mains fuses will eventually fail, even if there is nothing wrong with the amp. You can get the correct fuses from Maplins (it's always useful to have some spares!!), or online from Rapid Electronics.

Replace the fuse and turn the amp on. Does the fuse blow? If it does turn the amp off, install a new fuse and remove the power valves. 

Turn the amp on.

If the fuse doesn't blow, then you almost certainly have a shorted power valve.

If the fuse still blows you mostly likely have a damaged power transformer and a trip to the tech is in order.

^ +1

some sound advice from JPF, exactly what I'd do too.

Valves can short out without any warning. I've installed brand new and tested valves into amps and had them go down in a shower of sparks as soon as the HT is applied!

I went through a bunch of JJ EL34s that did this and marked the end of my relationship with JJ output valves.



We've had good results with JJ valves, which we have gone back to using now that they have sorted the pins out. I've had a couple of JJ-6L6s flash over in amps with B+ > 500V. E34Ls have all be fine. We have probably installed 150-200 of 6L6s and E34Ls in amps over the last couple of years.

What do you use now? I really like =C=, but we can't get them in bulk (ie at least 50 pieces) at a sensible price.

I don't like EH EL34s (either from a sound or reliability point of view).

The bog standard 5881-WXT are fairly bullet proof (if a little dull sounding), but again staring to get expensive due to the collapse of the pound vs the dollar. Not really tried any other of the EH 6L6 style valves, although I do have a pair in my main amp.

S-logo Svets are good, but aren't really suppose to be sold in the UK. We got a very good deal on some 6L6s a couple of years ago but since then haven't been able to get them reliably.

My experience would suggest that there is considerable batch variation between valves. We had one order of 50 JJ-EL34s that all matched to within a 8 ma range for current draw (I matched these). The next lot of 50 seemed to be in two groups — a low current draw group and a high current draw group, suggesting that they came from different batches (or that someone had pre-selected out valves that had the correct current draw to work correctly in their unadjustable fixed bias amps, not mentioning any names.......).



jpfamps

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Re: Valve amp died
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2009, 12:49:32 PM »
Loud humming sound for 5 seconds then nothing....

The slow-Blo has popped.

Any ideas?

Sorry I forgot to add, you could have bias failure to one or more valves. This would cause that/ those valves to draw more current (hence the humming) and eventual fuse blowing.

Bias failure can be caused by:

1) Loss of contact between the control grid pin and the valve socket. This was a real problem with older JJ power valves that used smaller than standard pins. New JJ valves now have correctly sized (and tapered) pins. Application of contact cleaner and retentioning the socket usually cures this, however if the socket is damaged it may need replacing.

2) Internal wire break in the valve. I've seen this on a few valves, in which case the valve needs replacing.

3) Failure of component/s in the bias circuitry. Unfortunately this will require a trip to a tech.

Hope that this is helpful.



HTH AMPS

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Re: Valve amp died
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2009, 09:39:56 PM »
Fuses, especially the anti-surge mains fuses will eventually fail, even if there is nothing wrong with the amp. You can get the correct fuses from Maplins (it's always useful to have some spares!!), or online from Rapid Electronics.

Replace the fuse and turn the amp on. Does the fuse blow? If it does turn the amp off, install a new fuse and remove the power valves. 

Turn the amp on.

If the fuse doesn't blow, then you almost certainly have a shorted power valve.

If the fuse still blows you mostly likely have a damaged power transformer and a trip to the tech is in order.

^ +1

some sound advice from JPF, exactly what I'd do too.

Valves can short out without any warning. I've installed brand new and tested valves into amps and had them go down in a shower of sparks as soon as the HT is applied!

I went through a bunch of JJ EL34s that did this and marked the end of my relationship with JJ output valves.



We've had good results with JJ valves, which we have gone back to using now that they have sorted the pins out. I've had a couple of JJ-6L6s flash over in amps with B+ > 500V. E34Ls have all be fine. We have probably installed 150-200 of 6L6s and E34Ls in amps over the last couple of years.

What do you use now? I really like =C=, but we can't get them in bulk (ie at least 50 pieces) at a sensible price.

I don't like EH EL34s (either from a sound or reliability point of view).

The bog standard 5881-WXT are fairly bullet proof (if a little dull sounding), but again staring to get expensive due to the collapse of the pound vs the dollar. Not really tried any other of the EH 6L6 style valves, although I do have a pair in my main amp.

S-logo Svets are good, but aren't really suppose to be sold in the UK. We got a very good deal on some 6L6s a couple of years ago but since then haven't been able to get them reliably.

My experience would suggest that there is considerable batch variation between valves. We had one order of 50 JJ-EL34s that all matched to within a 8 ma range for current draw (I matched these). The next lot of 50 seemed to be in two groups — a low current draw group and a high current draw group, suggesting that they came from different batches (or that someone had pre-selected out valves that had the correct current draw to work correctly in their unadjustable fixed bias amps, not mentioning any names.......).


the only brand I've never had trouble with is =C= and the original Svetlana brand before EH bought the name.

JJs tend to look/feel very robust (especially the 6L6s they were putting out around 8 years back that I used in my own Fender Tonemaster I was gigging at the time), but I've since had trouble with reliability and the tone isn't really to my liking either (fuzzy sounding).  The exception is their 6V6 which is just great - no troubles cranking the shitee out of a pair of those in cathode bias and run HOT.

The EH brand stuff is hit and miss - the tone is generally good (especially their recent EL34s which break up very nice), and their 6550s have found use in a mate's 2204 Marshall for 5+ years though he now prefers =C= 6550s which I told him are nicer (and they are MUCH nicer - crisp and punchy).


Dmoney

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Re: Valve amp died
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2009, 05:08:19 AM »
i just got JJ 6V6's installed in my 3 channel Mesa Dual Rec...
i REALLY like the sound of my duel rec now. fiddled with the preamp section too. gonna fiddle some more.

the 6V6's in my dual rec are drawing ~22mA with the rear switches in the right position and some GZ34 rectifiers