Vader

[Vilches3]

Ive read several great reviews about these cabs but in the dean forums I was told theyre a scam because the high wattage makes almost all heads incapable of really pushing them, causing them to sound this or something along that line. anyone here use them?

[Roobubba]

I've heard of them, but have no experience. The point I want to raise is that high wattage is not necessarily a bad thing. If you want speaker breakup, then yes, you're going to struggle getting, for example, a 4 x 12 cab loaded with EVM12L-black labels (each rated at 300W) to break up with any normal guitar amplifier. Or two. Or even three.
However, some of us don't WANT out speakers to break up! When it comes to tight, clinical metal sounds - just as one example - speaker breakup is not a particularly attractive sound. Instead we tend to prefer high preamp gain, and get our distortion at the early stages of the signal chain, as this tends to give the tightest sound.
Power amp breakup - where you get the power tubes cooking - is used to a lesser extent in metal, and a MUCH great extent in rock to blues sounds. Here, you get a much warmer, crunchier sound than the rather cold, clinical sound of preamp distortion.
Speaker breakup is the next level along in the chain - it's a bit like power tube breakup, in that it's warm and crunchy, some might say a bit flabby - certainly not clinical.

So to say that a cab is bad because the speaker power rating is too high for a specific amp is not really a valid argument. You need to consider what sort of music you're playing, and even then it's not black and white. I know of several bluesy/rocky players who favour the high wattage speakers (presumably they like cooking tubes!).
Oops, that turned into a bit of an essay...

Roo

[the_bleeding]

roo is right. Vaders are designed for the furthest extremes of metal. So they are meant to serve as tight and clinical speakers.

When speakers break up, 2 things happen. The lows disappear, and the higher highs are compressed, and it starts getting very smooth and middy. Sounds great in classic rock and blues stuff.

But when you use it for metal, you WANT your heavy lows and your extended highs. You WANT it to be super tight. High wattage speakers are able to preserve their bass response at higher volumes.

Oh, and higher wattage speakers are also technically louder -- and i'll explain this.
Take a greenback for example. 25 watts and a sensitivity of 98db. That means at 1watt, it puts out 98db. And we know for every doubling of wattage, the volume increases 3db. therefore:
1 - 98
2 - 101
4 - 104 etc etc
and it maxes out around 111, or 112 when it hits 25 watts.

Do it with a 120 watt speaker at the same sensitivity, and you go up to about 118 decibels

However, most speakers are MUCH more efficient than a greenback. Running between 100-103 decibels sensitivity.
Combine higher sensitivity with higher wattage and you have crushing volume.

[Will]

But a speakers wattage is what it can handle, not what is being inputted. If you have a 4x12 of Greenbacks, you are not neccesarily getting 25w to each speaker if the amp is on 1. I think, anyway

[the_bleeding]

But a speakers wattage is what it can handle, not what is being inputted. If you have a 4x12 of Greenbacks, you are not neccesarily getting 25w to each speaker if the amp is on 1. I think, anyway

Exactly. So if it can handle 25 watts, and you have it in a 412 (100 watt cab), that means it will still breakup and soften the bass and highs a lot sooner than a speaker rated at 120 watts (480 watt cab).

Its really all about preserving bass; and to a lesser extent the amount of volume outputted with a fixed amount of current.

[Vilches3]

im guessing these wouldnt be too desirable for clean tones to vintage rock tones then?

[the_bleeding]

they'd do clean beautifully. If you want a very clean clean. None of that edge of breakup clean. And yes, it would do classic rock okay, but you'd have to dial the tone into your preamp. You wont be able to smooth out the speakers with a non-master volume amp cranking out the power.

it depends moreso on your amp.

[Philosoful]

I thought you was talking about the band :(

[Johnny Mac]

Interesting posts here Gents!

I cant break up the clean on my Koch Powertone. It has lots of headroom and stays clean at loud volumes. So i use a HBE Dos Mos in front of the amp just a little bit and it does the job nicely but you have to balance that with the clean channels pre-amp volume or it sounds nasty.

Those big black label speakers must be phenomenal in the bottom end! Do you use those Roo?

[Roobubba]

Interesting posts here Gents!

I cant break up the clean on my Koch Powertone. It has lots of headroom and stays clean at loud volumes. So i use a HBE Dos Mos in front of the amp just a little bit and it does the job nicely but you have to balance that with the clean channels pre-amp volume or it sounds nasty.

Those big black label speakers must be phenomenal in the bottom end! Do you use those Roo?

Yup :) Couple 2 of those with 2 G12K-100s in a 4x12 cab, and then a 2x15", 2x8" cab (old Marshall 2 x 15" bass cab which I modified to take a couple of 8" speakers), and drive the whole lot from a 5150-II with a WezV baritone at the front end, and Roo is one happy chappy :)