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Author Topic: n00b seeking advice on pickups for an Epiphone Dot.  (Read 6920 times)

Spiteface

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n00b seeking advice on pickups for an Epiphone Dot.
« on: March 12, 2009, 08:12:31 PM »
Long-time reader, first-time poster.

This is my first post, and it's the usual question seeking advice.

I have a few guitars, my current favourite is my Epiphone Dot, purchased last year.  At present it's all stock apart from the plastic knobs.

Anyway, I like it, and I'm liking the feel of a semi more these days, but I'm finding the stock Epiphone pickups a little muddy at times, so I have decided that in a few weeks I will have the funds to afford some new ones.

I've done a little digging so far and have an idea of the kind of sound I am after.  I'm into mainly indie-ish music.  Mainly Manic Street Preachers, Smashing Pumpkins and Silversun Pickups.  The lead singer/guitarist of Silversun Pickups, Brian Aubert mostly plays an Epiphone Sheraton.  I have seen him play a Gibson ES-335 and a Fender Jaguar elsewhere, but he tends to gravitate towards his Sheraton.    I read a while back an interview where he said that he had changed the pickups in his to SD Antiquity humbuckers.  I like the sounds He's getting.  Which begs the question, why I am asking this question here, if I know what he's got in his guitar?  The thing is, Antiquities are expensive, and I have read in some places they can actually be a little inconsistent.  I've heard almost nothing but praise for BK. Also, a set of BKP's would actually work out slightly cheaper for me and I'd have a bit more choice.  That has to be a good thing.

Another thing that I'd like to take into consideration is that recently I've been listening to a bit of Tom Delonge's guitar sound, mostly Blink 182's self-titled album (what was the last one until the recent reformation) and Angels and Airwaves.  Obviously his signature guitars use Gibson Dirty Fingers humbuckers.  I normally was never a fan, but I do like his sound since he ditched the strat.

So, pooling this altogether, I had a look around this forum, and have read that the most popular choice of BKP's for 335-style guitars is the Stormy Monday set, maybe the Mules for rockier tones, and also factoring the Delonge thing, I have read that the Cold Sweat is supposedly in the Dirty Fingers ballpark tonally.  But then (usually in the same thread), people here tend to advise against using such high-output pickups in a hollowbody guitar, and that it wouldn't be as versatile with them.  That said, Tom Delonge can get some varied tones out of his signature Gibsons, so I haven't entirely ruled that out.  That said, I will admit, I'm looking more towards the Stormy Monday/Mule humbuckers, as these would seem to be closer to the general thing I'd want.

Here's some examples of the Silversun Pickups guitar sound to help if anyone has suggestions/recommendations:

Well Thought Out Twinkles
Lazy Eye
Rusted Wheel

and the rest of my Gear is an Orange Tiny Terror head with an Orange 1 x 12 cab, with a Big Muff and Boss DD-3 delay for effects, but sometimes I just like plugging straight into the amp as well.

Apologies for the length of this post, but I wanted to give as much information as I could.  All suggestions will be welcome, for pickups and anything else that I should be looking at.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 08:14:09 PM by Spiteface »
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Fourth Feline

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Re: n00b seeking advice on pickups for an Epiphone Dot.
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2009, 08:22:56 PM »
Hello and welcome to the forum Spiteface,  :)

My opening suggestion is that the Stormy Mondays are going to be far too polite / smooth for what you want. If you did want them, get the Alnico IV magnet version ( default is the softer Alnico II ) - to tighten up the bass - and sharpen the top end a bit.

To be honest, I would go higher output and more 'brash' - the obvious choice ( I have heard but do not own ) are the Riff Raffs. Still Vintagey but with an aggressive edge, and clarity which is easier tamed a little if needed by tone controls -  where the Stormy Mondays or Mules are just going to round the tone out and ( in the case of the Mules ) add a touch more mids, thereby making them sound a bit thicker, not brighter. A semi - acoustic does tend to 'absorb' and mellow out pickups somewhat .

So for my suggestion , Riff Raffs.  :)

Twinfan

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Re: n00b seeking advice on pickups for an Epiphone Dot.
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2009, 10:48:46 PM »
I think Derek (Fourth Feline) has summed things up very well as usual  :)

I've had a listen to the clips you posted, and it's quite a soft sound from that 335.  Listening to Delonge as well, it's not a sharp tone he's got.  If that's your thing, I think regular Alnico IV Stormy Mondays would be a very versatile option - tight enough for the rockier stuff but still warm for the softerer side.

That's what would get my vote  :)

Spiteface

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Re: n00b seeking advice on pickups for an Epiphone Dot.
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2009, 05:08:36 PM »
Thank you both.

I will hopefully be looking to buy the pickups in the next week or so.  I think I might end up going for the Alnico IV Stormy Mondays - One thing with using the Big Muff for distortion/fuzz is that it can "mask" the sound a lot.  It tends to make everything just sound like a "Big Muff".  So I'm more likely to hear the difference more with cleaner tones, although since I got my Tiny Terror last year I have rediscovered the greatness of just plugging straight into a good amp.  I'm looking into getting something a little more versatile soon as well anyway.

So I think soon I shall send an email asking for advice straight from the source.

Again, thanks!

EDIT (to avoid double posting):

I've just had a thought. Going by the 2 suggestions you guys posted - what about having a Bridge Riff Raff and a neck Alnico IV Stormy Monday for the best of both worlds?  How would that sound?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 06:19:57 PM by Spiteface »
Proud owner of a set of Riff Raffs and Emeralds.

Fourth Feline

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Re: n00b seeking advice on pickups for an Epiphone Dot.
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2009, 09:53:29 PM »
Hi again,  :)

I read here somewhere that the AV Riff Raff Bridge and AIV Stormy Monday neck work very well.  I think it was forumite PhilKing that posted a bit about that combo.

I would ( between me and TwinFan ) listen to Twinfan though ;  as not only has he had extensive use of both the Stormy Monday and Riff Raff.  He has also a very good ear for which tone / assignment = which pickup.

If Twinfan thinks your particular role models / choice are  best served by the AIV Stormy, then I tend to trust his judgement - as he has gigged both. I obviously like the AIV Stormy as I own a pair, but wonder if one day, ( with all respects to Twinfan ) if being more 'Indie' than Blues - you might have the feeling that you should have put more 'teeth' in the bridge pickup. 

As you also say , Tim at B.K.P has the ultimate experience of "pick 'n' mix" - but your leaning toward one of each sounds like a formula somebody on here has had great success with - and certainly sounds like the best of both worlds, for someone that might want more flexibilty than I have ever used.  :)

   
« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 10:03:42 PM by Fourth Feline »

Spiteface

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Re: n00b seeking advice on pickups for an Epiphone Dot.
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2009, 07:57:39 PM »
Another one, would the AIV Stormy Mondays/Riff Raffs get me a tone close to the one here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecNf-MaZSb0

I believe the pickups on those things are Gibson Classic '57 plus humbuckers.  Ash are another band I'm into, and I like Tim Wheeler's tone when he's using that (his usual guitar is a Flying V though).  So would the BKPs mentioned get something like that as well?

Also, I noticed on the shop part of the site, there's nothing to distinguish between magnet choices when buying.  Would this be something I'd have to specifically request or something?
Proud owner of a set of Riff Raffs and Emeralds.

PhilKing

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Re: n00b seeking advice on pickups for an Epiphone Dot.
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2009, 08:19:14 PM »
I would say that that is more of a Mule tone than a Riff Raff tone (though the wah can push the tone envelope a lot!).  You could go with an AIV Mule/AIV SM combo.  You specify the magnets in the comments box on your order.
So many pickups, so little time

Spiteface

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Re: n00b seeking advice on pickups for an Epiphone Dot.
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2009, 09:23:04 PM »
The decision is made.

Tim replied to my email I sent him yesterday.  He recommends the Riff Raffs.  With his recommendation and what's been suggested in the thread - Riff Raffs it is!

Now all that remains is decididing on covers.  Maybe I'll just go with Chrome along with the rest of the hardware on my Dot, but Nickel tarnishes so "nicely", I wouldn't mind that.

Again, thank you all, I shall hopefully be making this purchase over the weekend!
Proud owner of a set of Riff Raffs and Emeralds.

Fourth Feline

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Re: n00b seeking advice on pickups for an Epiphone Dot.
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2009, 04:08:49 PM »
The decision is made.

Tim replied to my email I sent him yesterday.  He recommends the Riff Raffs.  With his recommendation and what's been suggested in the thread - Riff Raffs it is!

Now all that remains is decididing on covers.  Maybe I'll just go with Chrome along with the rest of the hardware on my Dot, but Nickel tarnishes so "nicely", I wouldn't mind that.

Again, thank you all, I shall hopefully be making this purchase over the weekend!

Nice one  :)

The covers might also take just a touch of the highest treble content down a bit too - which I can only feel is going to tune what you want to perfection. 

I tend towards chrome myself, as I have a 32 year old Gibson S.G. and the chrome fittings still aren't ageing - and I seem to like all aged, or all sparkly on the same guitar.   

I am sure you will enjoy your new pickups ( just pour yourself a large glass of patience before re- wiring through the 'f' holes ).   I have done the pickup fitting / swap in my 335 copy about 5 times - but of course the frist time always seems like the hardest.

Do please let us know how they turn out for you, especially we 335 / 339 fans !

Enjoy !  :)
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 04:10:52 PM by Fourth Feline »

Spiteface

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Re: n00b seeking advice on pickups for an Epiphone Dot.
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2009, 11:16:46 AM »
Just about ready to place the order, one last question - Are the long leg versions OK to fit in an Epiphone?  I know it's commmon on most Gibsons but I want to make sure it's the same for Epiphones.  The other thing is not really a question, but seeing as I'm not going for coil-splitting etc, I assume I'll be fine with just the braided 2-conductor wiring?

These may seem like daft questions, but I'm about to spend almost £200 on these, and I want to make sure I get it right.
Proud owner of a set of Riff Raffs and Emeralds.

Will

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Re: n00b seeking advice on pickups for an Epiphone Dot.
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2009, 11:33:26 AM »
It would do no harm to order 4 conductor, the two middle wires are soldered together as stock, so you it comes as like 2 conductor.
I think long leg would be fine, its a deep body right?

Spiteface

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Re: n00b seeking advice on pickups for an Epiphone Dot.
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2009, 11:36:41 AM »
I'm guessing the body is no deeper than a proper Gibson ES335, but I've never taken the pickups out to see how deep the pickups cavities are.

If you say that about thr 4-conductor, I'll leave it as it is.  Who knows? I may want that stuff one day.
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Fourth Feline

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Re: n00b seeking advice on pickups for an Epiphone Dot.
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2009, 11:58:07 AM »
Hi,  :)

Have a last check with Tim at B.K.P. - but I am sure all my pickups ( most of which have spent some time in my 335 copy ) - all seem have long legs, ( plenty of range for adjustment ) . They even fit in my relatively shallow S.G. too.

I always seem to associate short leg, with 'pointy' headstock guitars and those where the pickup is scewed straight into the guitar body, instead of in a pickup ring.

I have both 2 and four conductor pickups, but if starting again - I prefer the more solid / traditional feel of two conductor ( one cloth covered centre - surrounded by a hefty braid ).  That is just personal / cosmetic choice though, as I use low output 'vintagey' B.K.P. pickups - and the 2 conductor look  as I imagine the old originals would have looked , back in the day .

As you have said, though, at least with the more modern looking 4 condutor connections, you always have the choice to do interesting wiring tricks throughout their very long life.

I thing one of the main things ( when wiring in new B.K.P ) is that you might to take this opportunity to make sure you have nice quality full size 500k volume and tone pots in there - and a couple of nice Sprague ' Orange drop ' 0.22 microfard caps on the tone controls.  Not essential, but when 'transplanting' in a semi- acoustic guitar - ( as Ratrod will confirm ) - you only want to be doing it once if you can , due to it being a bit fiddly.

 :)

 
« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 12:03:11 PM by Fourth Feline »

Spiteface

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Re: n00b seeking advice on pickups for an Epiphone Dot.
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2009, 07:47:11 PM »
They arrived yesterday.

I am paying my local music store (as local as a 40-minute train journey can be) a visit tomorrow, to see how much they would charge to fit them.  I'd actually be scared to try it myself.  Maybe one of my Les Pauls, but I've never done this before (I remember helping a friend of mine change a pickups in some cr@ppy strat copy I gave him years ago, in his back garden, but that doesn't count - he was using the soldering iron).

In the meantime, I just open the box from time to time and gaze at them.  Shiny...
Proud owner of a set of Riff Raffs and Emeralds.

Fourth Feline

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Re: n00b seeking advice on pickups for an Epiphone Dot.
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2009, 08:29:14 PM »
They arrived yesterday.

I am paying my local music store (as local as a 40-minute train journey can be) a visit tomorrow, to see how much they would charge to fit them. 

In the meantime, I just open the box from time to time and gaze at them.  Shiny...

Savour the anticipation ...  :)

I look forward to reading about them in your semi-acoustic guitar ;  it sounds like a winning combination to me !  :D