O Eternal Verities!

[Prawnik]

Since I have loved the album Presence by Led Zeppelin since I was a kid, after much meditation and many guitars built, I am building a guitar for that sound. The amps on that album mostly sound like Supro Thunderbolts pushed by a Fuzzface, but I am guessing here.

For those not in the know, Jimmy Page mostly recorded Presence not with a Les Paul or Tele, with a Lake Placid Blue 1963 Stratocaster. According to the guy who sold it to Jimmy, it was stone stock when Jimmy bought it.

However, the Strat I am building will have late 1969 specs down to the pickup routes, and will be Blue Ice metallic, not LP Blue.

It will have a veneer rosewood board and a Callaham trem and block, but approrpriate Fender Pat. Pending saddles. Unlike Jimmy, I prefer heavy strings and high action.

It will definitely have BKP vintage-style s/c pickups, but I am not sure which ones.

If this guitar were a maple board, I'd definitely choose Apaches. But since it's not, would Mother's Milk or Sultans' be a more appropriate choice for that kind of chiming brewtals?

[AndyR]

I believe Mother's Milks would be the right sort of "correct" pickup for a 63 strat (ie what would have been on JPs).

I didn't realise it was used for most of Presence - I know it's on things like In the Evening (I think I've even seen footage of him playing it on that).

Wow if I'd known all this years ago, it would have been so useful in convincing band members that strats were the thang... "JP (a name to command their respect in those days) is a strat-player, so shut the f up boys... :lol:"

[Prawnik]

Yup, you can hear Jimmy use the bar on "Candy Store Rock", "For Your Life" and other tracks from that album, so it can't be any of his Lesters. Most of the other guitars are also clearly Strats.

Although Presence was JP's favorite Zeppelin album, it also never sold as well as their earlier efforts. A very different vibe from what the fans wanted.

[gingataff]

I imagine a veneer board has less effect on the tone than a slab board so perhaps Apaches might still be ok, but I'm willing to go with Andys suggestion of Mother Milks as he's much more of a single coil guy than me :)

Right, I'm off to listen to Prescence now 8)

[FernandoDuarte]

By veneer board shall I understand that on with radius on both surfaces of the fingerboard??

Never really understood this kind of building... :?

[gingataff]

By veneer board shall I understand that on with radius on both surfaces of the fingerboard??

Never really understood this kind of building... :?

Yeah, the maple of the neck has a radius under the fretboard and a thin veneer of rosewood is glued on, instead of a flat piece of rosewood glued on and then radiused.
Check out this link about 1/3 down to see the difference. https://www.musikraft.com/store.php?pg1-cid52.html

[FernandoDuarte]

Thanks :D
Was what I had in mind...

But keep don't understanding why make on this way :lol: more difficult and won't have much tonal add from the rosewood...

[gingataff]

I think most people choose rosewood or maple by looks rather than tone, plus you could argue that with a slab board there's less rosewood under the E strings than the G and D, whereas a veneer board is more equally balanced... maybe 8)
I agree that it looks more expensive to make unless the cost of rosewood outweighed the cost of labour at the time.

[Prawnik]

Thanks :D
Was what I had in mind...

But keep don't understanding why make on this way :lol: more difficult and won't have much tonal add from the rosewood...

I do it because I do my best to copy my beloved early CBS guitars as closely as I can. On the late'68-early'69 hardtail Strat I built, I actually did a veneer maple-on-maple board, as would be correct from 1966 through early 1969 (maple boards were optional at that time).

Fender did it probably to save on rosewood. Leo Fender was nothing if not cost-conscious.

Supposedly, the reason Fender changed from maple to rosewood boards had nothing to do with tone. It came about because Leo Fender was watching a variety show on TeeVee one evening around 1958. The musical act was playing Fender guitars. Leo liked cowboy music and he liked seeing his instruments on TeeVee, but he didn't like the fact that the guitars' maple boards showed wear spots big enough to be visible even on the tiny black-and-white sets of the day. That did not, in his opinion, make Fender guitars look good.

So Leo set to changing his guitars' necks to something that did not show wear so much.

Remember, back in 1958, musical acts wanted to look sharp, not worn at the elbows. This was the era when most popular music acts wore matching suits and did little synchronized dance steps while they played. Musicians wanted guitars that looked shiny, modern, new.

The idea of "relicing" a perfectly new guitar to make it look old and beat-up would have earned you a free trip to Bellevue in those days.

[Prawnik]

I believe Mother's Milks would be the right sort of "correct" pickup for a 63 strat (ie what would have been on JPs).

I didn't realise it was used for most of Presence - I know it's on things like In the Evening (I think I've even seen footage of him playing it on that).

Wow if I'd known all this years ago, it would have been so useful in convincing band members that strats were the thang... "JP (a name to command their respect in those days) is a strat-player, so shut the f up boys... :lol:"

Oh, and pregunta mas estupida, but what would set Mother's Milk tonally apart from Sultans? I know that the magnets are different, but how does that result in a different sound?

[AndyR]

^ You got me on that one - I'm afraid don't know anything about the Sultans.

(And my Mother's Milk knowledge is "hear-say" based on what I've learnt on here! :D)

So I'll be quite interested to see what responses you get...

[FernandoDuarte]

Interesting, so these double radius was the first roseW from fender? violin fingerboards are double radious too, should be from were it came...

[AndyR]

violin fingerboards are double radious too, should be from were it came...

I was wondering if it might be something like that (but I didn't know whether violins were like that or not :lol:)

[Prawnik]

Interesting, so these double radius was the first roseW from fender? violin fingerboards are double radious too, should be from were it came...

No, Fender rosewood board were "slab-style" through mid-1962. After that, they went to veneer boards. Rosewood boards remained veneer-style (probably to save dough) through the 1970's. Maple boards were no longer offered by that point, although a few made it out the door as extra-special custom orders.

By the time maple boards were an "official" option in 1966, Fender was making them from two pieces of maple, presumably because not many were being made and that way they could share more components with their much more common rosewood bretheren. As maple boards became a more popular option, Fender returned to the one-piece necks sometime in mid-1969, probably to save on labor costs, as the veneer is more work.

[Philly Q]

I've read that with veneer boards (maybe particularly on refretted ones) the fret slots can cut all the way through the rosewood, so the rosewood contributes very little to the tone because in effect it's cut into 22 separate little bits.

So as gingataff said, maybe you could go with Apaches after all?