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Author Topic: Londons Burning!  (Read 13445 times)

MrBump

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Re: Londons Burning!
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2009, 01:20:51 PM »
Yep, definitely an errosion of liberty.  The anti-terror legislation alone seems to give police carte blanch to do whatever the hell they like...
« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 01:31:35 PM by MrBump »
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Jonny

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Re: Londons Burning!
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2009, 01:24:57 PM »
Christ this place is shite :roll:
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Dmoney

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Re: Londons Burning!
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2009, 01:30:04 PM »
my band is called dirty money, and i joined a band that used to be called recession...
before all this happened!

oh the irony

Elliot

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Re: Londons Burning!
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2009, 03:06:11 PM »
The most alarming thing I have heard is Harriet Harman's 'Court of Public Opinion' statement - and the threat of retrospective legislation to stop Fred Godwin's pension.  Of course, all the lefties loved that bit of empty rhetoric but no-one considered that if you deprive a rich man of his contractual pension rights today the government will use that precedent later to deprive you of your liberties.  And who determines 'Public Opinion'?  Rupert Murdoch and the Daily Mail seems to be the likely candidates.

Blaming bankers for the economic downturn is like blaming sweet shops for obesity - there is a causal connection but its a bit of an oversimplification .  No one was complaining when they had 0% interest for 9 months credit cards to buy their trinkets, or when they were making a profit buying and selling properties on 100% mortgages.  Now they 'were enticed to take out loans they could not afford'.  Its like pushers and junkies - one needs the other to survive.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 03:12:08 PM by Elliot »
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Elliot

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Re: Londons Burning!
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2009, 03:12:50 PM »
Still a little bit of argy bargy in the City between crusties and cops is always good to stimulate things - it certainly provides pictures for use on punk cd covers..... :D
« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 03:14:36 PM by Elliot »
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dave_mc

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Re: Londons Burning!
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2009, 06:25:14 PM »
If anyone else messed up so catastrophically at work they would be sacked without remuneration.

Considering how the banks have c--ked things up there should be NO talk of bonuses - they should be glad to still have jobs (those that weren't let go)

I fear the only reason he bonuses and golden handshakes have remained is because the government ministers are in bed with all the fatcats - and an issue like boardroom pay is one that they dont really want to reign in.

Why has the G20 been so widely reported

Is it because the papers dont have any celeb gossip this week
or
because the government would actually like a bit of civil unrest so it can call a stste of emergency and roll back a few more civil liberties under the guise of terrorism prevention or suchlike


+1 (and i'd add that a lot of the govt ministers probably want a job with the banks when they get voted out).

i'm well aware that goodwin is probably being made the scapegoat (i.e. plenty of others were also to blame), but he's to blame too. i don't agree with the attack (apart from anything, it's not worth it, as they'll probably get caught by the same police/govt who claim not to be able to do anything about goodwin :roll: ), but, er, yeah. if he's a wee bit scared for a while, as long as he doesn't come to any actual harm, it serves him right.

38thBeatle

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Re: Londons Burning!
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2009, 06:59:34 PM »
I wish I knew then what I know now. I could have worked for RBS and made a far bigger mess of things for half the pension.
I do not trust Governments one bit in collating and keeping secure data. I hate this thing where we have to be watched in everything we do. Oh an in respect of a comment made earlier, yes the MPs are looking to increase their salaries by £40k per year.

As for newspapers, I don't read them any more-haven't for over 20 years. I detest the Mail but also the  Guardian- they are two sides of the same coin as far as I am concerned. No the only reliable source of truth, as we all know, is the t'interweb
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Elliot

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Re: Londons Burning!
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2009, 07:18:16 PM »
I would be happy for MPs to get more if they gave up their dodgy and opaque expenses system.  Although £63k is a lot of money to earn (i.e. a lot more than I earn) it isn't a salary that is all that hard to get to for an educated person and if you want MPs to do their job full time without the fiddling you probably do have to pay them a bit more than that.
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dave_mc

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Re: Londons Burning!
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2009, 07:59:20 PM »
Although £63k is a lot of money to earn (i.e. a lot more than I earn) it isn't a salary that is all that hard to get to for an educated person and if you want MPs to do their job full time without the fiddling you probably do have to pay them a bit more than that.

yeah, pretty much. much as it'd pain me to pay politicians more, it could be the lesser of two evils. though on the other hand, if they're only there for what they can gip, if you pay them more they might still be out to feather their own nests...

I wish I knew then what I know now. I could have worked for RBS and made a far bigger mess of things for half the pension.

:lol:

Dmoney

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Re: Londons Burning!
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2009, 08:08:54 PM »
start shoplifting.

crimes against wealth are always taken more seriously than other sh*t. I had a friend who was murdered by 3 kids, one got 6 years, 2 of em got 3. They beat him to death in the street and a stole his bike.

Now, i've read stories of people who do graffitti, gettings their houses raided, and getting thrown in jail for the same amount of time....seriously! international manhunts too! But hey, banksy is cool, he makes money, lets not think what he does is a crime, even though its the same basic thing any other writer does; paint on a wall. which apparently is equal to taking a life, in the eyes of the law.


Will

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Re: Londons Burning!
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2009, 09:22:35 PM »
I would be happy for MPs to get more if they gave up their dodgy and opaque expenses system.  Although £63k is a lot of money to earn (i.e. a lot more than I earn) it isn't a salary that is all that hard to get to for an educated person and if you want MPs to do their job full time without the fiddling you probably do have to pay them a bit more than that.

+1 it sounds like a huge hike, but they can claim for just about everything. Its disgusting as it is, atleast it could be regulated and hopefully open.

You then get onto the question of whether politics should be a paid role at all (ideally, it would not so that the people will honestly represent and do their job) but then the only people that can afford that would be (traditionally) the Lords or wealthy

Dmoney

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Re: Londons Burning!
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2009, 09:59:33 PM »

Quote
You then get onto the question of whether politics should be a paid role at all (ideally, it would not so that the people will honestly represent and do their job) but then the only people that can afford that would be (traditionally) the Lords or wealthy

exactly, they need a wage. I feel like politics is so corrupt only the most corrupt get anywhere.

Elliot

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Re: Londons Burning!
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2009, 10:07:14 PM »
The trouble is politicians will give themselves a massive hike in pay AND keep their off book perks.  Parliament will not vote against its own interests and power.
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Will

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Re: Londons Burning!
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2009, 09:43:40 AM »
I should also add, my politics class of last year ALL agreed that politicians should be paid in excess of £150 000 and keep expenses. (I did not get on with that crowd)
Their reasoning: that they could be earning that money in other high city jobs easily.

Philly Q

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Re: Londons Burning!
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2009, 10:49:57 AM »
I should also add, my politics class of last year ALL agreed that politicians should be paid in excess of £150 000 and keep expenses. (I did not get on with that crowd)
Their reasoning: that they could be earning that money in other high city jobs easily.

There's some sense in that, unfortunately.  Politics shouldn't be something that people go into for the money, but at the same time it shouldn't be like doing voluntary work, or the country would be run by some kind of crazy extremists or, at best, a bunch of idealistic hippies (which might be good, in some ways, for about six months...). 

As it is now, we have this awkward system where politicians aren't badly paid - they're well paid compared to you and I, but then it's a very difficult job with enormous responsibility (if they take it seriously).  But at the same time their salaries are absolutely piddling compared with City workers - the BIG difference being the bonuses.  So instead the politicians play the system and get every perk and allowance they possibly can.  A bigger salary plus justifiable expenses (minus all the dodgy housing allowances) might be better.

I think another problem with the top politicians today is that they're all career politicians.  In the past people tended to go into politics after a career in industry, business, landowning or farming - so yes, most of them were posh, but they still had experience of dealing with real people and real problems in the real world (like Vince Cable, the only politico who seems to be talking sense about the economy).  Nowadays they get out of Oxford or Cambridge, get their legal qualifications or whatever, but then go immediately into a career as a junior-under-secretary's-third-assistant and work their way up from there.  So they don't appreciate the realities of the health service, public transport, cr@ppy schools or the finance sector because they've never had to deal with it - and they end up interpreting "success" in terms of mere statistics.
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