Amp speakers

[Nick184]

Hi there!

I recently decided that i needed a new amp to go with my awesome BK nailbombs; my fender FM210R solidstate amp makes for some decent tones when used with my line6 floor POD but i wanted something with a bit more bite and clarity on the distortion and a bit more sparkle on the cleans.

Naturally I instantly thought 'VALVE' and started researching valve amps that suit my style: i usually play some form of metal, rock or bluesy rock. Think pink floyd, dream theater and jimi hendrix.

So i was looking at some valve amps, and when i finally got around to trying some of them out it dawned on me just how much louder valve/tube amps are than solid states, and living in a house with quite thin walls and in close proximity to other houses, i don't think i'd be able to get away with cranking a valve amp, especially as i play my guitar pretty much everyday for an hour at the very least.

Although i only tried out a couple of valve amps and they were all over 40 watts and mostly class A. My fender is solid state 65 watts...so if i were to get a 10 watt valve amp would that be close to, louder or quieter than my current amp?

I also thought about replacing my amp speakers as they are just stock fenders. If i replaced them with some celestions or something like that, how much would the sound improve?

THANKS in advance to anyone who offers advice :D

[Elliot]

Most agree that valve's sound best - from the description you give 5 watts is likely to be too much!  Try out the Blackstar HT5 combo or the Blackheart Little Giant combo  The Vox AC4TV looks cool too, but I haven't heard it.  I'd also look at the 15w Fender Blues Junior which has master volume that allows you to limit the volume (i.e. for distorted max the volume and minimise the master, and vice versa for clean).)

As to speakers - Stock Fender's are made by Eminence and in the solid states are quite neutral sounding - if you want a Celestion sound a Classic Lead 80 will match your amp well, but, to be honest, won't make as much difference to the tone as a valve amp.

[Roobubba]

I would look towards getting a 5W or lower powered valve amp. Even at 5W, you'd probably not be able to crank it.
I recently fitted a high efficiency Peavey Sheffield speaker in place of the stock Fender speaker in my old solid state Fender Princeton 112 Plus (also 65W I believe), and now I can't turn this up beyond 1/10 on the volume or it's too loud at home!
Of course, it's not a patch on my 120W 5150-II (quad of 6L6s), which would cause structural damage at 1/10 at home :D

If you want great tone at low volume, master volume (mentioned above) is your friend, as is a LOW power valve amp, something like 1W maybe..., also a fairly low efficiency speaker. Don't look towards traditional 'metal' gear - it's mainly aimed at low-breakup, pre-amp based distortion, with power amp distortion only happening at deafening volumes, and speaker breakup essentially never ever ever happening.

Changing the speakers on your existing amp WILL make a big difference (although not necessarily as nice a difference as switching to a valve amp). I found my old fender amp became MUCH more 3-dimensional sounding, with a nice midrange bite and grind when I put in the Peavey speaker in place of the fender speaker. Also handles the low stuff much nicer. It's difficult for me to suggest anything for you, because my requirements are very different from yours!

Blackstar HT5 is a pretty good call, I can't offer any other specifics, because I'm personally into the big beefy stuff for gigging in a hardcore/metal band :)

Good luck, and welcome to the forums!

Roo

[Bradock PI]

I have listened to the Blackstar, HT5, VoxAC4 (which although it doesn't have a gain has a power switch down to 1/4 watt), Fender Junior blues  and Superchamp XD , Vibro champ XD and several solid state amps and of those the Vox, Blackstar and Junior blues had a saound that was streets ahead of the other sub £300ish combos I listened to. In terms of versatility they rank HT5>Junior Blues>Vox AC4 if the Vox has a main weakness it's the single tone control which doesn't seem to do much although the tone is nice anyway. The Blackstar has the treb-mid-bass and the ISF if I remember right the junior has a single tone control but did't play with that much so not sure how effective it is. We didn't have room for it but the stack seems great value. Wrote all this out and not sure how much use it will be if you just want a head amp ( I did try a Tiny Terror as well but as a combo this is a lot more expensive as a head I believe it is not much more than the blackstar).

The volume a system puts out will depend on a few factors open or closed cabinet speaker is one - open will generally be louder. Second is the speaker efficiency a 102dB speaker in a 5W combo will be as loud as a 96dB speaker in a 20W combo. Every 3dB of speaker efficiency = 2 times the amp power.

A perceptive doubling in volume so when you would say that sounds twice as loud takes around 6dB

[ailean]

I'd take a look at a Tiny Terror, they don't have a great set of features, but if you like them they are a great little amp. (I have a head version, which I'll be selling if my VH4 ever bloody well turns up   PDT_045, so keep an eye on seconds out if you are interested or PM me. )

The other thing I'd mention is attenustors. They are great. Yes they will influence your sound, and yes that gets greater the more you attenuate. But they do mean you can play a 50W valve amp through a 4x12 at TV volumes. They aren't cheap, but they work. We use a THD Hotplate with an Orange Rockerverb 50 and can get some pretty decent tones with it.

Playing at room level you'll never get the speakers moving that way we'd all like, but until you can build a soundproof room an attenuator might broaden your horizons a bit.

[JamesHealey]

valve amps aren't really louder than solidstate amps they're just measured differently.

An output tube has a point where it starts to distort, this is the top of the headroom of the amp thus the wattage rating is taken here. But usually you can nearly double that before the tube actually stops going up in volume/gain.

For instance I've measured some Marshall Super Leads that are rated 100w but are putting out nearly 180w! Mine put out 156w or there abouts.

Now a solidstate amps power section doesn't overdrive because that would sounds horrible, so they simply just stop at the clean power rating and don't go any louder or rarely go much into distortion.

So when you're buying that Blackstar 5watter it's more likely it'll be putting out nearly 10w when it's cranked which is louder than u'd expect, for instance some of these 18w boutique amps will be putting out 30w+ when cranked and i've gigged with a 30w solidstate combo easily before..


anyway if u want power tube overdrive at realistic house hold volumes u probably want about 1.. yes one! watt of power.. but if that leaves you stumped for choice, try something like the orange tiny terror.. 15w and 7w selectable, and it has that all important feature of a "master volume" so you can get pre-amp over drive in the house without having to get your power section cooking.

[hamfist]

Don't forget the option of a pedal-based rig through a clean valve amp.  There are so many great pedals out there.

My current rig is based on pedals through either a 50W or a 100W clean valve amp - truly outstanding tone - and at any volume !!

[38thBeatle]

I'd just chip in and say that the power rating isn't always a good way of determining loudness. For the reasons already stated, a valve amp is likely to sound much louder than the solid state equivalent if we are talking about power rating. Also, a 100w amp will not be significantly louder than a 50w-in fact many of us wouldn't be able to detect the difference. As some of the guys have suggested, if you want a low power amp for home use then be prepared to get it home and find it is still louder than you expected. I gig with a "30w" Laney combo and , with one exception, it has never yet not had the ability to keep up with the band I play in and yet I can get a reasonable tone out of it at home-not the great tone I get live but perfectly adequate for practice etc. It is fair to say that a valve amp does start sounding better when it is cranked but if you audition various amps at various levels you may find that one of them is going to fit the bill. If I want a cranked up sound at low volume I use a pedal and it does me fine.

[dave_mc]

^ +1, while it's true that valve amps generally sound better turned up, that's not to say they sound terrible turned down (at least if you have the sense to buy an amp which sounds decent turned down!). i'm not suggesting that you shouldn't buy a low wattage valve amp- just try some higher wattage ones too, as especially for the metal you play, they may do that better, even turned down, than a lower wattage amp turned up more.

[tomjackson]

Playing at lower volume is a compromise with almost any amp.  I'd go for a 5-15W valve amp and get a decent drive pedal for some grit or something with power scaling.  The Cornell Romany comes highly regarded but at £900 it's not cheap.

Oh, and pay no attention to the Class A thing, no amp at 40W would be class A and most amps that claim to be are not anyway!

[Nick184]

Wow thanks for all the replies.

Thinking about what you guys said, i think i will upgrade to a valve amp. I guess what i'll have to do is try out some high and low wattage amps at the same volume and compare their tones.

Thinking of getting a blackstar ht5 as they're reasonable priced for valve amps and running a dist pedal through it. I've played one before and it had really nice cleans, but not a great deal of distortion, but i think that may have something to do with the shitety guitar i was forced to use and that i couldnt crank it much because i was in a shop. I'll have to see when i go back and try out some more amps.

Cheers guys!

[Bradock PI]

They do the Vox AC4 as a head and 1x12 as well as the small combo. The powerswitch means you can get breakup at house friendly volumes but as other people said it ain't no metal head. I think it takes pedals well though for heavier distorts.