why are power amps so expensive???!!!

[JDC]

I randomly got looking at rack power amps for no reason what so ever yesterday and now I'm wondering, what's the point, they are so expensive, if someone wanted a 100w 6L6 power amp why don't they spend £300 on a 100w valveking head instead and save themselves a small fortune

is my sense of logic wrong? there can't be a couple of hundred quids worth of difference in tone from a power amp to justify the additional cost?

[ailean]

Some of the difference will be economies of scale, you just won't produce as many rack units as free standing combos / heads.

The other big factor is the componants used. You can bet that the output transformer in a valveking will be lower spec then one found in a rack mount unit, and that's probably true for all of the componants. (And more expensive amps)

And lastly they can get away with it. That's an important factor :)

[hunter]

I don't find them expensive, got a new 2502 for 699, a proper VHT head would be 1500+, and then it would be mono.

You could also say why are heads so expensive, a SLO100 costs 4,000.

Just a matter of quality. And then in the lower ranges there are EOS a topic too indeed, as someone before mentioned.

[Jonny]

I suppose in comparison with the amp head it is taken from or the average price of the brand it's from, it comes out cheap.

And once you have a power amp, you basically have endless varieties in amp sounds, it all depends on the preamps, etc.

So if you think of a proper VHT or Mesa Boogie, then take the poweramp out and stick it with something else, you've sometimes gotten the exact sound you want rather than buy a Mesa Boogie and tweaked it to as close as you can get.

Now I'm just waffling.

[jpfamps]

I randomly got looking at rack power amps for no reason what so ever yesterday and now I'm wondering, what's the point, they are so expensive, if someone wanted a 100w 6L6 power amp why don't they spend £300 on a 100w valveking head instead and save themselves a small fortune

is my sense of logic wrong? there can't be a couple of hundred quids worth of difference in tone from a power amp to justify the additional cost?

Several reasons for this:

1) The power amp contains all the expensive bits in an amp.

2) As stated above economy of scale. This has a huge effect on price. Look at the price of new cars compared to a high end guitar.

3) Rack gear is really aimed at the professional market, so a higher standard of build is required. Pro equipment needs to be more reliable than "domestic" amps.

4) A consequence of 3) is that the individual parts are more expensive. Transformers were mentioned. These (should be!) the most expensive part in a valve amp. Compare the size of the transformers in a Peavey amp with other brands on the market and you will see where money has been saved. Even items like the rack enclosure will cost more than the amp sleeve and chassis on the Peavey. This is beacuse it has to support the weight of the amp when in the rack.

I always it ironic that on this forum, where the benefits of spending £190 on a pair of humbuckers is seen as worthwhile (and don't get me wrong here I have always been very impressed with all the BKPs I have tried and often recommend them), that people object to paying more than £300 for a whole amp!!

Transformers contain more expensive parts than pickups, are more difficult to wind, have to pass very strict safety standards (which costs more money) and have a very significant influence not just on tone but on the reliability of you equipment.

[MDV]

I randomly got looking at rack power amps for no reason what so ever yesterday and now I'm wondering, what's the point, they are so expensive, if someone wanted a 100w 6L6 power amp why don't they spend £300 on a 100w valveking head instead and save themselves a small fortune

is my sense of logic wrong? there can't be a couple of hundred quids worth of difference in tone from a power amp to justify the additional cost?

Several reasons for this:

1) The power amp contains all the expensive bits in an amp.

2) As stated above economy of scale. This has a huge effect on price. Look at the price of new cars compared to a high end guitar.

3) Rack gear is really aimed at the professional market, so a higher standard of build is required. Pro equipment needs to be more reliable than "domestic" amps.

4) A consequence of 3) is that the individual parts are more expensive. Transformers were mentioned. These (should be!) the most expensive part in a valve amp. Compare the size of the transformers in a Peavey amp with other brands on the market and you will see where money has been saved. Even items like the rack enclosure will cost more than the amp sleeve and chassis on the Peavey. This is beacuse it has to support the weight of the amp when in the rack.

I always it ironic that on this forum, where the benefits of spending £190 on a pair of humbuckers is seen as worthwhile (and don't get me wrong here I have always been very impressed with all the BKPs I have tried and often recommend them), that people object to paying more than £300 for a whole amp!!

Transformers contain more expensive parts than pickups, are more difficult to wind, have to pass very strict safety standards (which costs more money) and have a very significant influence not just on tone but on the reliability of you equipment.

Errrr, no we dont.

There are engls, diezels, egnaters,, splawns, bogners, framus, VHTs and, well, pretty much any high end amp you care to mention owned between the members of this board.

The rest of your post is true save I'd qualify the 'rack gear is pro' in contrast with a head or combo with the fact that so are many one-box amps.

[jpfamps]

I certainly didn't mean to imply that all people object to paying for decent equipment; that clearly isn't the case as there are tons of threads on this forum regarding high end amps, guitars etc. (and pickups!!)

However, from time to time you do get the impression that some people's spending priorities are sometimes slightly at odds with what I would spend my money on to maximize my "tone".

I know from first-hand experience as I have occasionally have to deal with these people as customers!

The points I was trying to get across were:

1) If you think it's worth spend £190 on a pair of pickups, why do you think spending more than £300 on an amp in unnecessary?

2) Yes, there are very good reasons why more expensive amps sound better (and cost more).

[FELINEGUITARS]

I know the kind of point that JPF is mking
Someone will spend £1000+ on a guitar , £180 on some pickups , but wont spend over £10 on a lead

Having looked into building or upgrading amps - or rather having guys do it for me , I have looked at the cost of components
And good quality transformers are HUGELY expensive

A Rack mounted TUBE power amp will have 3 or 4 large transformers in it (also why they weigh so much) so the cost stacks up.
Also there are a load of power tubes in there for a 50/50 or 100/100 power amp

And usually power amps are aimed t the mid to high end of the marketplace so they tend to be built to a high standard

I have had loads of power amps over the years and currently am overjoyed at my 10w MJW/Martamp one and my Marshall 9100 - 50w per side
I'm just lucky that Egnater don't make power amps (yet)

However there are some cool secondhand bargains to be had!

[MDV]

I certainly didn't mean to imply that all people object to paying for decent equipment; that clearly isn't the case as there are tons of threads on this forum regarding high end amps, guitars etc. (and pickups!!)

However, from time to time you do get the impression that some people's spending priorities are sometimes slightly at odds with what I would spend my money on to maximize my "tone".

I know from first-hand experience as I have occasionally have to deal with these people as customers!

The points I was trying to get across were:

1) If you think it's worth spend £190 on a pair of pickups, why do you think spending more than £300 on an amp in unnecessary?

2) Yes, there are very good reasons why more expensive amps sound better (and cost more).

I hear ya. I agree with your point, in general, just that comment about "On this forum....people object to...." affronted me somewhat.

Some do - you occasionally see a passing n00b that wants BKs to go with his MG, but they're a minority, or learn quickly, and you get them anywhere.

That said, I follow the Golden Rule at all times - if it sounds good, it is good. I dont care how I get the sounds I like, or what the sounds cost.

[hunter]

I think here are many people with average gear, because you can make an average guitar a great guitar with BKPs. Still much cheaper to get a PRS SE and put some Mules in than getting a '245 Singlecut.

[MDV]

I think here are many people with average gear, because you can make an average guitar a great guitar with BKPs. Still much cheaper to get a PRS SE and put some Mules in than getting a '245 Singlecut.

Well, if we're talking guitars, I have everything from beginner gutiars to customs, and most points in between. And it is indeed because you can make a cheap guitar sound good with mods - I refer you to the Golden Rule :D

[Will]

I know the kind of point that JPF is mking
Someone will spend £1000+ on a guitar , £180 on some pickups , but wont spend over £10 on a lead

Also, straplocks. People complain about having to spend the extra £10 for that are dingbats

[Dmoney]

for ages i used to use the rubber bungs off flip top grolsh bottles as strap locks. i used to get em free by pulling them off bottle in venues and sticking em in my pocket. very effective. costs nothing.

[Adam.M]

I had a Marshall 9200 for a short while. When I opened the thing up it hit me right in the face why they're so expensive.

It's two damn amps in one! and weighs like it too...

[FELINEGUITARS]

I had a Marshall 9200 for a short while. When I opened the thing up it hit me right in the face why they're so expensive.

It's two damn amps in one! and weighs like it too...

Yeah - eight power tubes , six preamp tubes, big transformers
I had one for a while - pointless to use at home!