Potentially moronic question about Volume.

[headtheball]

Right so. I've been giving a Tiny Terror a bit of an audition lately, and I'm pretty sure it might well be just the job for me. I've been playing through a 1x12/1x15 cabinet, and with a wee bit of boost and the required ignorance Tim Sult-esque P-90 glory just rolls out of it.

The only bugbear is that it's just not quite loud enough for gigging. It does lovely for a laid-back rehearsal, but the drummer I play with is a savage sort of fella, and bass-player likes a fair bit of output on stage too. Now, the more powerful Oranges are the obvious solution here, but they're a little beyond my range at present. So, should I wait for the 30 Watt Dual Terror, or run Two Tiny Terrors? I have two of the cabs in any case, but I'm not sure if two 15 watters is greater than, less than, equal to a 30 or 50. Will they just "merge" with no perceived increase in volume?

[Jonny]

A Tiny Terror cr@p at gig volume? I say there must be something wrong with your TT!

Anyways, me thinks you just need a bigger cab. Why not 'borrow' a 4x12 for practice and crank it up and see if there's any difference.

[headtheball]

Ah, no, I wouldn't say "cr@p". It's really quite nice, I just happen to play with two mental patients, and need frankly silly amounts of volume as a result. It's a three piece, so filling the sound out is kinda the priority, hence the odd speaker cab, to "bridge" between bass and guitar.

I will try a fourbee if I get a chance, though.

[Bradock PI]

Get some 100 plus dB efficiency speakers

[Fikealox]

I think running two 15 watters would be the same as running one 30 watter, but unless my science fails me, you wont notice a gigantic increase in volume. A doubling of power will get you an increase of 3dB, iirc (maybe that's enough, though). A doubling of volume actually requires 10x the power. Don't know if that's of much help at all  :(

[Jonny]

Frankly, the cheapest option is you can tell your band mates to turn it the $%&# down a tad. As louder isn't always better, it's just annoying

But since you can't really tell a drummer anything let alone to be a little more quiet, I'd go with the cabinet idea, a 2x12 or 4x12, with some good speakers if you still can't get that volume.

[headtheball]

I don't know that a 2x12 would make a huge difference over the 1x12+1x15 cabs. They shift a *hell* of a lot of air. Maybe I should somehow jiggerypoke both cabs into working from one head. The cabs are kinda central to my whole "thing" though, I'm somewhat loath to alter them too much.

[ailean]

Pretty much whats been said, 2 15's will be about the same as a 30, but that won't be a huge jump in preceived volume. And increasing the db efficiency of the speakers. The other option is a PA of course, but all of these options involve money.

Frankly though? You are going to end up spending a packet to get the TT to run at gig type volumes, you may as well save some money and buy a more powerful head.

I do like the TT by the way and have one, but I can't see it ever competing with a mentalist drummer or bass player.

[James C]

As far as telling the drummer to turn down goes, if he's mic'ed up then he'd need to lay back as playing hard would actually choke the sound of the drums, John Bonham wasn't a hard hitter, he just had a huge drum sound. (took me 3 years before i'd stopped playing hard and then i got the sound i was after)

[LazyNinja]

Your drummer and bassist should turn it down if 15W cranked is getting drowned out. Sound guy would hate you guys playing at that kinda volume. In my old band my drummer was a uber hard hitter but I never turned my amp (VH100R) volume past 9 oclock for gigs. We always practiced louder so I always found it weird to be playing so quietly (relatively speaking) for gigs. Consequently, I got annoyed because I wasn't quite getting "my sound". If I were to get gigging thing again I'd make sure to rehearse at sensible gigging volume so that my tone is consistent.

[jpfamps]

I would mic your amp through the PA.

This is a very good solution as it allows you to crank your amp even in smaller venues. Guitar cabs can be very directional so putting some of the guitar through the PA also helps to spread the sound out more evenly FOH. This also keeps the on stage sound quieter.

Guitar has very limited bandwidth and will only require a little reinforcement so won't suck a ton of power from your PA (unlike drums for example), so any sensible PA system will cope fine with a bit of guitar.

Incidentally in one of the bands I play with one of the guitarists uses a 7W amp miced through the PA, which works really well.

[Twinfan]

I'd have to disagree with you, Kaz.  15w isn't that loud if you don't have a very treble-biased sound.  The more harsh your tone, the louder it seems and the less power you need to cut through.  I've played with guys using some low powered Fender amps and they rip your ears to shreds even though they're not that powerful on paper.

I gig a 90w half stack with YC/DC? and yes it's fairly loud but it's not ear melting - just a great big sound  :)  I used a TT and a 100db speaker 2x12 cab for a little while for rehearsals and it just about kept up with a full band.  It certainly wasn't enough for gigs.

I'd say HTB needs a louder amp.  In my experience playing blues and rock in bands with two guitars and a powerful drummer, somewhere between 35 and 45 watts is what you want to look for.  A JTM45, for example, I can use with a blues band and my rock band.

[LazyNinja]

I'd have to disagree with you, Kaz.  15w isn't that loud if you don't have a very treble-biased sound.  The more harsh your tone, the louder it seems and the less power you need to cut through.  I've played with guys using some low powered Fender amps and they rip your ears to shreds even though they're not that powerful on paper.

I gig a 90w half stack with YC/DC? and yes it's fairly loud but it's not ear melting - just a great big sound  :)  I used a TT and a 100db speaker 2x12 cab for a little while for rehearsals and it just about kept up with a full band.  It certainly wasn't enough for gigs.

I'd say HTB needs a louder amp.  In my experience playing blues and rock in bands with two guitars and a powerful drummer, somewhere between 35 and 45 watts is what you want to look for.  A JTM45, for example, I can use with a blues band and my rock band.

Fair comment Dave, I'm guessing you play unmic'd though? I've never actually played a 15/18W amp at full volume, but I assumed it was similar to a 100W at 9 oclock. Mic'd up and with monitors pointing towards you I'd have thought 15W would be loud enough? At the venues I've played I've always been told to turn down at soundcheck and made me think "why do I bother with a 100 watter?" every time. I agree 30/45W is probably the best of both worlds though :)

[Twinfan]

You're right - we don't mic up.  If you mic up, 1W is loud enough  ;)

I'm old skool - backline all the way for me, baby!  :D

[Philly Q]

You're right - we don't mic up.  If you mic up, 1W is loud enough  ;)

I'm old skool - backline all the way for me, baby!  :D

When I was at University we had occasional local bands nights, all the bands had to use the same gear (presumably loaned by a local music shop).  There was some kind of half stack, but any band with a second guitarist had to use a tiny little Yamaha combo, mic'd up through the PA.

I have an abiding memory of this podgy bloke with an Antoria guitar (Ibanez Artist style) playing Santana solos through that Yamaha combo.....  and it sounded fantastic.